My namespace proposal described in Yet Another Try

Michael van der Gulik mikevdg at gmail.com
Wed Sep 19 22:30:35 UTC 2007


This would mean that file-outs and Monticello packages would contain "::",
am I correct? In this case, we can't go back because all source past that
point can't be loaded by a non-Göran image.

Gulik.

On 9/20/07, David Mitchell <david.mitchell at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'd rather take the working system that Goran has and allow Gulik to
> keep working on his.
>
> Then we can debate the merits of switching to a different (completed)
> system.
>
> On 9/19/07, Igor Stasenko <siguctua at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Just 5 cents.
> >
> > I don't know, really a reasons why we should keep with obsolete
> > doctrine in having global dictionary? Its a barrier in collaborative
> > environment which we should remove (and the sooner - the better),
> > because if we don't do anything and keep things intact, while squeak
> > code base will grow, soon there will be 5% instead of 1% in name
> > conflicts and will grow more and more.
> > In closed, self sufficient community there no need to have any support
> > in namespaces.
> > But i hope everyone here wants to see a squeak is a number one
> > smalltalk in the world, or we don't?
> >
> > Giving a simple way to use global names in smalltalk was done for
> > convenience of developer. But now, we get to point that each conscious
> > developer, each time he needs to create new class should think twice
> > what name to give to it, because convenience to him here and now, can
> > turn into inconvenience for others later.
> > And, obviously, in such situation its more convenient for ALL to use
> > namespaces :)
> >
> > A names locally bound to some Namespace don't change code drastically,
> > and code can stay backward compatible (unless you play with well known
> > names, like #Array or #Collection).
> >
> > Most often uses of global names is references to well known kernel
> > classes like #OrderedCollection, #Array, e.t.c. If you take any random
> > class from any other package, you'll find that number of references to
> > it barely beyond 3.
> >
> > So, i think that converting any userland(i.e. non-core) code to use
> > with namespaces is a task for couple of minutes, since before
> > conversion we had each unique name = unique class.
> >
> > There are some problems when moving to namespaces like usage of
> > 'Smalltalk at:/at:put:' code. But using reflective hammer we can
> > easily get around it:
> > - get caller context, get its method, get method's class, get class
> > namespace - do name lookup.
> > So, if we really want it, we can do it in backward compatible way.
> >
> >
> > On 19/09/2007, Göran Krampe <goran at krampe.se> wrote:
> > > Hi Jason!
> > >
> > > > Hi,
> > > >
> > > > To keep it short, I've been heading down the same path on my own. So
> I
> > > > should check out your package and see where you are, and maybe same
> myself
> > > > some time. :)  Wonder if it'll break in 3.10.  Thanks for your
> write-up.
> > > >
> > > > Jason
> > >
> > > I started this code in 2004 actually. The issue of namespaces pop up
> > > regularly here in Squeak-dev and I try to explain it and push it and
> tweak
> > > it a bit every time the subject comes up.
> > >
> > > I would gladly see some help with punding on it and fixing some
> > > outstanding issues etc. If you are interested (or anyone else for that
> > > matter) - email me and/or pop up on IRC (irc.freenode.net, #squeak - I
> am
> > > gokr or gok1).
> > >
> > > I am going to OOPSLA late october and it would be neat to give it a
> push
> > > until then. My other "labor of love" right now is DeltaStreams, which
> is a
> > > tad related.
> > >
> > > regards, Göran
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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