[squeak-dev] The solution of (Was: Creating an image from first principles)

tim Rowledge tim at rowledge.org
Thu Aug 7 23:51:45 UTC 2008


On 7-Aug-08, at 10:25 AM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:

> On Thursday 07 Aug 2008 8:45:12 pm tim Rowledge wrote:
>> On 7-Aug-08, at 5:18 AM, K. K. Subramaniam wrote:
>>> I think the original question about creating an image from first
>>> principles
>>> was about transmutation, not cloning.
>>
>> The SystemTracer can easily create new images from specs rather than
>> 'merely cloning' an existing image.
> SystemTracer is a Smalltalk utility. So it does not qualify as a  
> transmutation
> tool.

What? Don't be silly.

> The quest is to bootstrap a Smalltalk system (VM and image) from more
> basic primitives. We know it is possible for the VM, but is it  
> possible for
> the image too?

Why? Who cares what tool is used other than to want the best one for  
the job? If there is actually anyone that claims that you have to  
generate an image solely by use of unix commandline utilities in order  
for it to be 'proper' then screw'em. They're mental.

>
>
>>> How does one create a Smalltalk
>>> environment (i.e. an image) starting with an environment that has  
>>> only
>>> imperative programming tools (e.g. C/C++, Forth etc.)? What is
>>> sought is a
>>> process that can be replicated by anyone proficient in the  
>>> imperative
>>> environment.
>>
>> Why waste time using crappy tools...
> Mmm.. Why do the tools and utilities required to build a VM, garbage
> collector, primitives and plugins suddenly become "crappy" when  
> building an
> initial image?

They don't. They're crappy to begin with. I've spent decades fighting  
with C compilers and debuggers etc etc etc and anyone that claims  
they're good is clearly either totally inexperienced with using them  
or deluded.

tim
--
tim Rowledge; tim at rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
ASCII to  ASCII, DOS to DOS.





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