[squeak-dev] Unload Traits script (response to edgar)

Jerome Peace peace_the_dreamer at yahoo.com
Mon May 12 20:01:48 UTC 2008


[squeak-dev] Unload Traits script


>Edgar J. De Cleene edgardec2001 at yahoo.com.ar 
>Sat May 10 22:23:24 UTC 2008 
>
>El 5/10/08 5:58 PM, "Jerome Peace" <peace_the_dreamer at yahoo.com> escribió:
>
>>> Matthew Fulmer tapplek at gmail.com
>>> Sat May 10 19:18:47 UTC 2008
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I wrote a script that removes traits from a 3.9 or 3.8 image:
>>><...>
>>> Installer install: 'UnloadTraits'
>>> <...>
>> 
>> Ok. Then what does this give you?
>> 
>> If you had such an image could you use it as a basis for development?
>><...>
>> This is different from the question of should it be. That also is important
>to
>> answer. But the "should"
>> question is a political one. I'm just looking for the technical answer to
>the
>> "could" questions.
>><...>
>
>Well , 3.11 could not have Installer or any 3.8 don't have.

Huh? This does not sound right.
Are you saying that without traits you could not have the Installer SM or Universes?

>No SM, no Universes, no etc
>As clean we manage to clean and not putting any.

Not putting any what?

>Less code means less work.

If you change one thing here the you cause changes to other things there.
And you have to get the things there fixed.
So you need to think about what's "there" before you poke at what's "here"
Else you have in the long run more work and less working code.

>more easy to test

How would it be more easy to test?
Indeed how would you test?
And where are the tests that would prove you have not done harm by removing things?
How much time do you estimate it would take to do the cutting? <important question!>

>more easy to improve.

Not unless done carefully. And not unless done with concensus.
Unless others agree this is a good direction we will lose resources (i.e. good coders and helpers)
to other branches like Saphire.
Less work is getting others to help.

>I plan to cut several things , so my first could be Traits.
>It's your picture on Hall of Fame and going back to good track.

A good track for what?

Stef is going to try to entice seaside development into his branch.

IF he succeeds...

what will happen then?

If seaside uses traits and squeak-org squeak does not then:
1) We have a squeak without the seaside users(They will use Sapphire/Pharo)
2) We have a squeak without etoys users (they use a vpri varient of squeak)
3) We have s squeak maybe without a good way to update or maintain.
All we will be left to do is experiment with delta-streams and MC2.

Basicly we are going off you race track and into the woods.

In short and in the form of an Alan Kay question:

"What makes it worthwhile?"

Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace


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