Andreas,

Ok, Zen session management.  One thing I like about Dolphin's approach
is there is a clear startup, so things like initializing the network
have a home and do not need to appear anywhere else.  Here, it appears
that Seaside was running when the image was saved, so it's running when
it reloads.  The startup lists seem to cause a mix of initialization or
sometimes simply tear things down to force subsequent lazy
initialization.  Is that a reasonable summary?

As for preferred OS, this comes to you courtesy of Ubuntu.  The biggest
concern I have is that the switch involves some platform independent
graphics that will be non-trivial to replace.  I am sufficiently tired
of Windows hassles (not to mention wondering what they will break
next...) that I would be willing to sacrifice some features, hopefully
temporarily, to leave Windows behind.  With luck, I will be able to get
Linux/Pharo images to pass around some "Windows specific data" that is
generated and interpreted by what will be the last machines to convert. 
It requires some fairly hard work up front, and eventually a nearly
complete rewrite of something that could probably stand to have its
entrails straightened and cleaned anyway.  Before that, I will move
something that does LOTS of serial communications; I'm actually looking
forward to that, as I would get some noticeable benefits from the
switch.  Before I get to the ugly part, I hope to have amassed lots of
positive experience suggesting that Squeak/Pharo is sufficiently stable
and fast enough to do the job.

Asking this of the creator and maintainer of the Windows VM is perhaps a
little cruel, but please understand it is not meant that way.  Do you
have a sense of whether Windows is to be avoided because it is largely
junk, or because the Windows port of Squeak has inherent flaws?

IIRC, you reached a point of frustration with Squeak, and were thinking
of rewriting some servers in Java.  That triggered some semaphore and
delay fixes that seemed to be quite helpful to many users.  Did that fix
the troubles for you?  Did you further find it necessary to dump Windows
to get relief (that's probably a little redundant given your comments)? 
Were you able to avoid the server rewrites?

Thanks!

Bill




===========================
Andreas Raab andreas.raab at gmx.de
Wed Oct 15 07:16:28 UTC 2008

Bill Schwab wrote:
> Instead of the started/stopped business, it said that it could not
start
> the service.  I had been wondering about that, but the messages from
XP
> and 2k3 were more suggestive that Squeak/Pharo was deciding to quit
due
> to inability to access files, the network, etc.  At least that is what
a
> Dolphin server would do: discover it has no running socket/COM/etc.
> services and the bail out, unless overridden in the current session
> manager.  I'm still trying to get inside Squeak/Pharo's head in that
> regard.

It's really simple. There is *nothing* towards that end. The only thing 
that does anything is code that you write. No session manager, no 
console, no nothing. Don't assume there is anything because there ain't.

> Anything you have learned about tracing services on the various
flavors
> of Windows could be helpful.  I am tempted to finish off the Apache
> configuration and test the Seaside app, but hopefully I will have
enough
> sense to have a well-deserved beer and watch a movie or something.

The only thing I've learned is this: If you're running a service that 
you want to be available you don't run it on Windows. Ever. Go buy a box

at Hetzner.de[*] for EUR49 a month, put Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on it and you're

set for the next five years. This can be done in less than a day and you

have a production-ready environment.

For development, run the same setup in a VMware image on your preferred 
choice of machine (windows is fine for that). Note that since VMplayer 
is free all you need to find is a suitable VMware image, which is right 
here: http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/1223.

[*] Anyone knowing of a service of similar quality in the US or Canada?

Cheers,
   - Andreas



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 273-6785
FAX: (352) 392-7029