Hi Bert and all,

Still catching up. This is an answer to
the other half of the same post 

     	
>[squeak-dev] Ubuntu package maintainers help
>Bert Freudenberg bert at freudenbergs.de
>Sun Apr 19 11:25:12 UTC 2009
>
>
>On 19.04.2009, at 01:25, Jerome Peace wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Bert and all,
>>
>> Response to Berts replys:
>>http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-April/135551.html
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-April/135572.html
>>http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/2009-April/135662.html



>> Right now it is undecided. Though I find your last post most  
>> discouraging. Is that what you intended?
>
>
>Of course not. 

Good. I have found your replies the most infomational and therefore helpful.



>I just do not think adding yet one more set of DEB  
>packages helps improve the situation. It did not help in the past.

Until others are cool with distributing a full squeak package, I think squeak.org
should provide assistance. Also, I thing it will help. The first important thing is to help others try squeak or etoys or scratch. The larger the crowd the easier the political problems of getting things distributed w/o our efforts. 

If Etoys was distributed without sound you would be called upon to act. I feel that way about squeak. And I am aware that scratch is facing the same problems. So its time.




> I'd like to see it done right this time, and I feel the situation is much  
>more favorable now than it was ever before. 

I agree about the situation being favorable.  As for being "done right", anything worth doing right is worth doing poorly. Partial progress counts. Slightly less broken is a good trend. Do enough of it and you find things are being "done right". Then you can relax and find another focus.

>So if anything I want to *encourage* you and others to work towards proper packages in the  
>distros.

Volunteer time needs to be protected. Unless paid I decline to take on any responsibility that takes more than an evening to accomplish. To see results I try to have goals whose scope allows them to be reached quickly. If successful I can always add additional goals.

It also pays to pick goals that give the most bang for the effort.

For right now that means focusing on solving things for one distribution. Ubuntu is a good choice because it is widely distibuted. And as I now have one, I can see when the goal is accomplished. And before that I can play with various workarounds.

>
>> In the meantime I note that he is focused on debian which spawns  
>> ubuntu. It is not exactly the same. And not the same in the minds of  
>> Ubuntu's users.
>
>As far as I know there is no Ubuntu maintainer for Squeak packages.

Yep. That's a problem. Hopefully, we recruit one.

  
>There is interest (for example by the Sugar maintainers) but finding  
>one specifically for Squeak would be rather valuable.

I believe it will happen. The question I am curious about at the moment is how much effort will it be? Can we get one vm package out there and a way to use it with many image based packages. Combining squeak and etoys efforts towards that end might have a good payoff.

Or is there a good way to package plugins separate from the vm and the image?
Could the squeak vm problem solution be resolved with an update that installs vm-sound-ALSA into the squeak distribution.

>
>> On our download website there is no specific mention of Ubuntu which  
>> impedes navigation.
>>
>> Also the information presented to linux users requires way too many  
>> decisions for someone just getting started. Trust me on this.
>
>I know, and I do.
>
>> We can address this. It is something I would like to oversight board  
>> not to overlook. If you will pardon the pun.
>
>As a board member I feel responsible for the long-term sustainability  
>of the Squeak project.

I don't expect the board to change the website. I would like them to bless the goal
and help recruit the help. And direct them to "make it so".

>Hacks and workarounds can be done by anybody,  
>you don't need the board for this.
>
The board can give or with hold priority from a project. Nobody "needs" the board.
The board is just there to provide direction and co-ordination. In that they can be very useful. As you have been in this.


>
>Anyway, for immediate relief I did ask you for a proposal that the  
>web team could implement right away.

Bug trackers work in ignorace searching for the light. My basic proposal
is ask someone who has edit access to the website to think about decluttering the download page in general. Adding links for Ubuntu users specifically. Adding a page or two to help
linux users to navigate to a download with a minimun number of decisions needed along the way.

When they have mulled it over. Let them act on their thoughts. Let us know that they have acted. And accept our feedback for the appreciation it is meant to be.

Hth,

Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace