Don't want to sound rantish, but I do believe in either case that we don't
need an option to color print in the base image unless the base image can
actually color print. If it's out, the option to configure it has no
business in the browser IMHO.
Ron

On Sat, Aug 15, 2009 at 8:34 PM, Colin Putney <cputney at wiresong.ca> wrote:

>
> On 15-Aug-09, at 12:18 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
>
>  The problem appears to be that Eliot has been using Shout for formatting /
>> displaying colorized Smalltalk code. Which makes good sense since it avoids
>> code duplication and gives us more options on customizing the result.
>>
>> But it does lead to the same question that I raised earlier: Should we
>> include Shout by default? It is small, it gives us syntax highlighting,
>> prettty printing and other advantages. I would be propose to trade services
>> for it to keep the core image small and to the point, but that's just my
>> opinion.
>>
>> Comments welcome.
>>
>
> I have a few thoughts.
>
> One, lets not conflate these two issues. Including Shout is unrelated to
> removing Services; either could be done without the other. Let the two
> proposals stand or fall based on their merits.
>
> Two, removing Services sounds like a good plan. For services to be really
> worthwhile, lots of other stuff would have to be rewritten to use them. That
> hasn't happened, and it looks like it never will. Services should be easy to
> make into a loadable package, so if any other packages out there happen to
> use it, they can keep doing so.
>
> Three, I'm a little ambivalent about Shout. Syntax coloring is cool, but it
> seems to sink its tentacles fairly deeply into Morphic. Understandable,
> given that it must respond to every keystroke. I'm in the middle of
> reworking the Shout support in OmniBrower, to break the dependency it
> introduces between the Smalltalk domain model and Morphic. These aren't
> really show-stoppers, but they make me think that it would be better to keep
> Shout as a separate package, with really clear boundaries. Maybe someone who
> knows Shout better could convince me otherwise, or come up with a way to
> have Shout in the kernel image that would keep it separate from the default
> toolset, available to alternate toolsets such as OmniBrowser, and easily
> unloadable.
>
> Finally, we ought to have some sort of policy or philosophy for deciding
> what is included in the base image. Are we still trying to create a minimal
> image that can be bootstrapped up to a more complete image? Are "extras"
> eligible for inclusion if they have broad enough appeal?
>
> Colin
>
>
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