On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:26:39 +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:

> Hi Klaus,
>
> as these are the times to deal with community and feelings your answer is
> a perfect sample what drives people like me away. I really don't like to
> be offensive so please don't take it too literally.

Okay, not taken. But what you wrote was against the active users of the  
bug report system, and I do not like you treat them this way. They are  
very valuable, have been very active in their spare time, reported and  
fixed things.

In particular I don't like you saying "it looks like really nobody cares".  
Many things have been done to+with bugs.squeak.org in recent time, so it  
seems you are rather uninformed?

This cannot be unanswered, you know what I mean.

If you are not satisfied with the contents of Mantis, then why don't you  
do something against it? You could come back in a year from now and could  
tell "we've hunted them all down and closed all the unanswered cases", etc.

/Klaus

P.S. taking my message as a reason of your driving away would be a joke ;)

> As an introduction I
> think I am making a good point that is close to obvious. Neither is
> bugs.squeak.org a closed tool where I have to register first nor must I
> have been working for years with it to judge about its state. I can just
> look at it. All I wrote is just my impression how I encounter squeak. And
> I'm writing this even if I always have to think twice before posting to
> squeak-dev.
>
>> On Thu, 02 Jul 2009 09:02:20 +0200, Norbert Hartl wrote:
>>
>> ...
>>> For the new setup to work well there is still one thing to do IMHO.
> Sooner or later the bug tracker should help in organizing and
>>> documenting changes. But mantis is in an awful state.
>>
>> Are you a Mantis user? I checked reporter id's but didn't find one
> matching your name.
>>
> Why are you asking this? For me it has nothing to do with what I wrote.
> But for me as a squeak user it sounds like
>
> "Who are you to speak up against our work? What have you done to dare?"
>
> Maybe I'm sensible for this but it sounds like to put others first in a
> defensive state. From this on in my imagination you are already wearing a
> grey beard. To me it doesn't sound welcoming at all.
>
> For your information. I'm a mantis user? yes. You could find me in the  
> bug
> database? yes. I did ground breaking work for squeak? no.
>
>>> There are nearly
>>> 2200 tickets in the database. Coming from the outside it looks like
> really nobody cares.
>>
>> Except to those people who use it. For example, Ken has recently closed
> bugs which have fixes in 3.10.x ...
>>
> That is what I said! I never said that mantis is not used or obsolete. I
> was referring to the amount and the age of the tickets. But if you want  
> to
> frustrate people than just say "Works for me". IMHO every other is
> confused by a ticket system that contains tickets that are 5 years old  
> and
> have a rather massive amount. But the biggest problem is that I can  
> easily
> assume nobody of you has an overview over the open issues. So beside  
> being
> confusing what are these tickets helpful for? If they are obsolete close
> them. If they are real bugs nobody cared the last 5 years so they can't  
> be
> that important.
>
> Norbert
>
>> /Klaus
>>
>>> A bug tracker with less tickets and tickets that
>>> give an overview what is going on right now is essential. Maybe not for
> the gurus and old timers but for everyone else (e.g. me). I would like
> to propose a cleaning initiative of mantis. I would expect a lot of
> these old bugs to be obsolete by now. So a quick check if this bug is
> still valid can be done. And then if it is invalid you just need to
> close it.
>>>
>>> Norbert
>>>
>>
>