Hi Keith -

I really appreciate your attempt to compromise. I appreciate even more 
that you are acknowledging that the processes are orthogonal and not 
contradictory.

My biggest concern with the proposal is that you seem to be committing 
other people's time over a period of time that you yourself will be 
unavailable. Considering that the people who you've signed up may have 
other plans and that you are not around for any guidance, how well do 
you think this will work?

Secondly, you are adding several new dependencies in the process of 
getting to a result, including "2-10 grand refactorings" plus 
DeltaStreams. That is unrealistic. Nobody can commit to grand 
refactorings that haven't even been proposed.

Can't we just choose the available fixes from Mantis *now* and apply 
them, and build a 3.11 release candidate *today*? This wouldn't require 
committing time from other people, it wouldn't put additional 
dependencies in the way; all it requires is to sit down and actually run 
those scripts and produce an artifact from it.

Cheers,
   - Andreas


Keith Hodges wrote:
> Given that not only are Andreas and I talking at cross purposes, but
> also our processes are virtually orthogonal, I have concocted a compromise.
> 
> X) My 3.11 proposal is about harvesting contributions that are complete.
> Y) Andreas' proposal is about getting people motivated to begin
> contributing.
> 
> Due to the fact that I need to eat, and pay my bills, I am unable to do
> anything for at least 12 weeks, I am sorry but that is how the cookie
> has crumbled this week.
> 
> 1.
> 
> I propose that Ken organise the Mantis crew (you know who you are) to
> pick the top 100/200 or 300 bugs, and to test them in latest
> "3.10.2-build" available from 
> 
> http://ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-build/090628-1523/ 
> 
> Mark those tests you are most confident in as "Resolved" - "fixed in
> 3.11", that is all you need to do to harvest a fix.
> 
> 2.
> 
> Andreas to review and edit the image re-organisation tasks as defined in...
> 
> Installer install: 'Packages'.
> Installer ss project: 'Bob'; install: 'Tasks-Squeak310'.
> 
> Squeak310PlusOne-#taskReorganizeCategories.
> Squeak310PlusOne-#taskReorganizePackages.
> 
> Define your own ideal image organisation, hopefully following the model
> provided which puts tests in context next to the category they are
> testing (for a much tidier image)
> 
> Add to the above additional code to split up System and Network into
> smaller pieces that can be farmed out. (Please someone find a new
> HTTPClient/HTTPSocket)
> 
> Reorganise "3.10.2-build" using the above, and save to the "trunk"
> repository, so that new contributions will use the new "designed"
> organisation of packages.
> 
> 3.
> 
> Andreas, Eliot, Igor, Matthew et al.
> 
> Pick/Instigate 2-10 projects to carry out in the newly organised trunk
> (or elsewhere as appropriate), each aiming to deliver a completed "grand
> refactoring".
> 
> One of these could/should be the re-licence, and a second should try and
> fix our changes file limit problems, a third should be integration of
> closures.
> 
> 4.
> 
> Göran and Igor
> 
> Hammer away on DeltaStreams so that we have a cool way to share and load
> these "grand refactorings".
> 
> 5.
> 
> Keith
> 
> On my return, I will import all of Mantis into MC, so that the chosen
> list of bugs is remembered (I will put the code to do this is into
> squeaksource/Bob when it lets me).
> 
> I will then configure Bob to build the 3.11 release alpha/beta with the
> 300 best fixes, and any completed grand refactorings. Which can be
> applied before or after the fixes as desired.
> 
> How about it?
> 
> Keith
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>