[squeak-dev] Re: Cross fork development model

Ramon Leon ramon.leon at allresnet.com
Wed Jul 15 03:16:24 UTC 2009


> We already have several versions of PackageInfo, some maintained and
> some not. There is a public repository in which a lot of work has been
> carried out. Matthew improved the speed of PackageInfo by a factor of
> 10x. I myself moved PackageInfo and PackageOrganizer to be the master
> list of loaded packages on behalf of MC. A lot of work has already gone
> into this, and the decision to make MC/PI maintained as a project
> external to the image was made a number of years ago. The last thing we
> need is someone coming in and trashing the work we have already acheived.

This would be that sense of entitlement Andreas referred to
previously.  Just because you did work does not mean other people have
to use it.  You have to convince them to use it, if you can't, that is
your failing.  Someone not using your work is not wrong.  Someone
creating another fork is not wrong.  People are going to do what they
want to do.

> No bitterness here, I am pointing out the practical status  of what is
> occurring. One person has summarily chosen to move the image forward in
> a particular way, without considering the bigger philosophical picture.

This is not true.  He's clearly considered it and simply come to
different conclusions about the direction things need to move than you
have, he values different things than you do.  It's not a matter of
right and wrong or correct and incorrect, it's a matter of who gets
more community support and contributors.

> So yet again we end up with more forks than when we started with, and
> lots of work that has already been done is going to go to waste.

And?  Everyone has a right to fork, it's what they do when they're
dissatisfied with the way things currently work.  You seem to have
this presumption that you're right and everyone else is wrong or
misinformed.  Have you considered that perhaps you're wrong?  I'm not
saying you are, I'm just saying you come across as if that's just an
impossibility.

You're trying to wrangle all the forks into cooperation with each
other by imposing a process on them.  If all those people were good at
collaborating with each other, they probably wouldn't have forked in
the first place.  Perhaps they have enough work in their own projects
that they don't have the extra time to follow your process because
sharing everything they do in a way compatible with other forks is not
their primary goal.

Committing code to a package in a trunk is a quite common method of
collaboration among developers; far more common than submitting every
change in code into a bug tracking system so an automated build
process can pick it up.

> Whatever, if you cant see it... I haven't got the energy to argue.

If you don't have the energy to convince others that your ideas have
merit, then you shouldn't have the energy to continually criticize
others who are scratching their itch in a different manner than you'd
have chosen.

> I am making the point so that Andreas will listen to himself and reflect
> upon his way of working. He is driving this thing purely on his
> technical ability to code something. This is not being thought through.
>
> Keith

Again with the presumption that you're right and he's wrong.  Give it
a rest, if his idea sucks it'll fail in due course; if it has merit
then it'll succeed and he'll get people contributing to Squeak.  He's
not trying to solve the problems of every other fork, he's trying to
make it easier to contribute to Squeak.  That might not fit in with
your grand scheme, but if you can't sell him on your scheme, then so
be it, let him be.  He was elected by the community to do this; he's
not just some random dude trying to piss of Keith.

Obviously, some people agree with him, respect him, and find it easier
to contribute with his method.  If your process was so easy and
simple, you'd have everyone doing it your way already.  Since they
aren't, you have to ask yourself why?

Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com



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