Igor I think that this is too early.
Let us deliver something first and see.
I want to see what we can really do.
Can we create a community of doers?
Can we create wealth and a cool community?
Then some people can see how we can merge and if this makes sense

Stef

>>>
>> 2. Take some decisive action and "merge" the two in some *smart* way
>> beneficial to both. Impossible? I hope not.
>>
>> 3. Just kill off squeak.org. A mercy kill :). Then people could move
>> over to Pharo without having to think about it - there is no other  
>> "Squeak".
>>
>> Eh, well, my analysis is probably full of silly holes here. Looking  
>> at
>> the above, 1 and 3 feels less nice. So how could a "merge" look that
>> would be attractive to *both* camps? I call the theoretical merged
>> project Phreak below (but I am not proposing name changes etc, but I
>> need a name to use in the text).
>>
>> Pharo characteristics:
>>
>> - A small "benevolent dictator" board. Lots of action, less talk.
>> - Has a very clear stated "direction".
>> - Has a website using CMSBox.
>> - Uses Google code for issue tracker and wiki.
>> - Has Mailman mailinglists and downloads at gforge.inria.fr (I think)
>>
>> Squeak.org org characteristics:
>>
>> - Has an elected SOB, an election process and a Team model. The  
>> jury is
>> still out I think, we seem to have lots of trouble "getting shit  
>> done".
>> - Has very little stated "direction" at the moment.
>> - Has a website using Swazoo.
>> - Uses Mantis, Swiki, file archive and Mailman on a community paid
>> Hetzner server.
>>
>> Now... why would Squeak.org want to merge with Pharo?
>>
>> Pros: Get momentum back. 1 + 1 = 2. A revitalization. Very important!
>>
>> Cons: The SOB & Team model would probably have to be dropped. The  
>> work
>> made since Pharo forked may or may not be a "lost cause", that  
>> depends
>> on if Phreak is interested in utilizing that work. Other cons?
>>
>> ...and Pharo?
>>
>> Pros: An influx of developers. A much stronger position as Phreak  
>> would
>> be Squeak + Pharo. No "compatibility" to worry about, Squeak is out  
>> of
>> the picture.
>>
>> Cons: Some people in Pharo may perceive such a merge as dangerous  
>> since
>> they might be afraid that certain aspects of Squeak.org (that Pharo  
>> was
>> created in order to escape from) is coming back "knocking on the  
>> door".
>>
>> I personally don't think there is such a danger if Phreak simply  
>> adopts
>> the simple organisation of Pharo (with board and all) BUT... since it
>> would make the Pharo community much *larger* the effects of that  
>> growth
>> need to be taken into account. But Pharo should not fear growth,  
>> because
>> that would be an odd position.
>>
>> How could a merge be done practically? I really don't know :). And I
>> must stop typing now, this post is waaaaay to long anyway and I have
>> probably stepped on too many toes already.
>>
>
> Hello Goran.
> You are definitely didn't stepped on any of my toes/toys. And i would
> certainly sacrifice my SOB membership (if this is a sacrifice), to see
> things moving & progressing as fast as they do in Pharo.
> As many others, i eagier to see the squeak/pharo/phreak shining - make
> it cool & modern software. The rest of things is barely bothering me.
>
> What i like in Pharo, that they make decisions on strictly technical
> basis - no politics. If code is good - it candidate to be included. If
> code stinks - its a candidate to be excluded. Simple concept :)
>
> For anyone, interested in my opinion:
>  i would put a huge +1 for a merge on a Pharoer's conditions.
>
>> regards, Göran
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pharo-project mailing list
>> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
>> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
>>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pharo-project mailing list
> Pharo-project at lists.gforge.inria.fr
> http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project