At 12:00 PM -0800 11/6/09, Eliot Miranda apparently wrote:
>On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Ken G. Brown <<mailto:kbrown at mac.com>kbrown at mac.com> wrote:
>
>At 7:15 PM +0100 11/6/09, Bert Freudenberg apparently wrote:
>>On 06.11.2009, at 18:46, Ken G. Brown wrote:
>>
>>>IMHO, such smart guys that are doing the majority of contributions to trunk could have figured out the way forward with Keith's established future methodology using Installer, Sake/Packages, Bob the Builder, MC 1.5/1.6 in about ten minutes.  Some were already up to speed on the way forward. They could then have contributed fixes to the tools for that methodology where required and we would be now in the future instead of stuck in the past, forked yet again with the old trunk methodology (it's not a 'new' development model) that got us into the difficulties in the first place.
>>>
>>>Ken G. Brown
>>
>>If it all sounds so easy (which in fact it wasn't, neither for the board members nor the community at large half a year ago) then why don't you contribute a tool everybody can use to easily harvest Mantis fixes into Trunk? Or add Installer support for trunk development? Or set up a Bob server to churn out ready-built trunk images and test results? Or make a trunk image with MC 1.5/1.6?
>
>I believe you are looking at this the wrong way around. The trunk started at an old position.
>As you surely know, latest Installer, lpf and Sake/packages are already in the latest <http://ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf>ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf or <http://ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf-atomic/>ftp.squeak.org/3.11/Squeak3.10.2-lpf-atomic/, ready to go for Bob the Builder. If the trunk additions were added to the latest, using Sake/Packages I believe we would have something. Andreas and I showed that the trunk repository gets quite far along loading into Keith's latest but with hacks required to overcome the divergence that trunk has taken. Someone with the intimate knowledge of what is going wrong could most likely fix the remaining issue/issues easily.  Adding lpf, MC 1.5/1.6 etc. to trunk, just continues the divergence.
>
>
>>It may take you more then 10 minutes but *that* might get us moved forward even faster. Trunk development does progress fine, but we're all for improved tools and processes, so let's see them.
>
>You only need to look at Keith's documentation, videos, and emails to see where it is all at. He has explained this all in my opinion in enough detail over and over again.
>
>
>We've already been over this.  A disparate set of communications is inadequate.  It is too onerous to try and understand the system from a long and multi-media thread.  This needs to be committed to some web pages, e.g. a wiki.
> 

For a while (before trunk), I was saving pertinent emails to a blog at <http://squeaktipsandtrickswatch.blogspot.com/>. Some things have changed with Keith's stuff since but relatively minor I think. One could ask him if really interested.
Here is Keith's video from 4 months ago http://www.vimeo.com/groups/squeak/videos/5434330 showing  how to use Sake/Packages to load AND unload Seaside 3.0.

Ken G. Brown

>Ken G. Brown
>
>
>>And now back to the discussion at hand, shall we? Otherwise please change the subject.
>>
>>- Bert -