On 11/14/2009 11:29 PM, Andreas Raab wrote:
> Folks -
>
> I feel like the recent discussion about directions left us without much
> progress in terms of where we think Squeak is headed. I actually don't
> think this is particularly hard to formulate, since as we all know,
> Squeak will be headed where we make it head to. In other words, I think
> we could come up with a pretty good idea of where Squeak will be headed
> if those people who actually contribute tell a little bit more about
> their interests and directions. So let me be the first to start here:
>
> My long-term vision for Squeak is to bring it back to being a medium for
> personal dynamic media. I want Squeak to be a fun, educational, small,
> dynamic, media-centric environment. My current immediate directions include:
>
> * Making the system be more modular. Adding the Morphic TextEditors,
> refactoring Project, being able to unload various packages are in line
> with that. Expect more from me in this area as time allows.
>
> * Figuring out how to load packages, projects, etc back in. I haven't
> done much about this yet, but we desperately need better tools for
> (roughly speaking) "loading apps". Squeakmap gets some things right,
> Universes address others, both aren't very well integrated with
> Monticello, and by the end of the day the UIs for all of them suck.
>
> * Restore the media facilities. I'd really like to see the next Squeak
> version bring back Speech, bring back Games, bring back Wonderland etc.
> All in loadable project form so that people can explore them based on a
> small initial foot print.
>
> I'd be interested in hearing what others working on and in Squeak have
> to say about their own directions. Together it should give a pretty
> comprehensive understanding about where Squeak is headed in practice.
>
> Cheers,
>     - Andreas
>
Thanks for starting this thread.

What I would like to see with Squeak and I really don't know how 
possible it is or what it would take or even if it would be acceptable 
and supported by the community. But here goes.

Presently I am writing an app that I would love to do in Squeak but cannot.
Why Squeak?
Simply because I love working within a live environment.
I love the tools available for writing the code.
I love being able to fix a problem live and continue on. Not starting 
all over.

But I am constrained. I am provided two options for my application.
1. Interface with a Windows COM library.
2. Interface with Java libraries.

I would love to see Squeak running on the JVM able to import and 
interoperate with native Java libraries.
I would love to see Squeak give Jython or Clojure a run for their money.
I would love to see Squeak enable more people to use less of Java.
I would love to see Squeak enable more people to make a living within 
the constraints imposed upon them by the business world by using Squeak.

I really believe that the more people who can make a living using 
Squeak, the better the opportunities for Squeak to be those things the 
rest of the community would like. A thriving ecosystem with a healthy 
number of users enables a lot of things.

And like Andreas said in the Sophie thread,
> This entirely line of arguments is one of the better reasons why
> "being popular" isn't such a bad thing :-)

I would love to see myself, Andreas and whomever not have to choose 
Python, etc. for some of the things that it gets chosen for. I would 
love to do those things in Squeak and better than I can do them in Python.

So presently I am using Python with win32 extensions to access the COM 
dll, writing data to a MongoDB, reading the MongoDB from Jython and 
passing the data to some Java libraries and then doing other stuff in 
Jython and passing data back to MongoDB and Python win32. :(    But it 
works.

I don't know how much technically I can contribute to my vision above. 
But at a later time I would possibly be interested in finding out if it 
is reasonable to pay (fund) to have Squeak on the JVM.

And yes I know about the start that Dan made on that direction. But I 
don't know how complete it is. And if it meets all of the requirements.

I think this could get Squeak into the business world in a way that it 
currently cannot.
I think this could also provide a potential migratory path for people 
who choose so to move away from Java but are constrained not due to 
technical reasons but political and bureaucratic.
Why should we have a great Lisp dialect (Clojure) on the JVM and not 
have an equally good Squeak (Smalltalk)?

And then maybe we can win Sophie back to Squeak. :)

Just some of my thoughts.

Thanks.

Jimmie