On Tue, 24 Aug 2010, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez wrote:

> El mar, 24-08-2010 a las 20:47 -0700, Andreas Raab escribió:
>> On 8/24/2010 8:23 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez wrote:
>>> El mar, 24-08-2010 a las 17:19 -0700, Andreas Raab escribió:
>>>> Don't feed this troll.
>>>>
>>>>     - A.
>>>
>>> Come on Andreas, what is this attitude of letting your friends to say
>>> what they want but jumping to put a troll label to any other that think
>>> different, Isn't mature.
>>
>> I think it's perfectly mature to call a troll a troll while letting
>> people who are presenting criticism in good faith (such as Pavel) say
>> what they want to say. That is exactly the difference between the two.
>
> Well, I suppose that Levente's comment about the capabilities of the
> pharo developers is in good faith too and that is the reason that it is
> permitted in this list.

I think you totally misinterpreted my comment. Let me quote it here and 
emphasize the part you missed:
"I think
Pharo lacks developers who have enough knowledge to touch those parts of
the system _and_ are willing to spend their time on it."

The "and" is very important, it's not "or" as you interpreted it.

>
>>
>> Also, if this were your first troll, I'd give you a bit more leeway. But
>> it's not, you have a history of making inflammatory comments on this
>> list and I don't want others to fall for your trap.
>
> Considering your own history of burning very capable developers in the
> past and that you were a key player in the events that lead to the Pharo
> fork from Squeak, I suppose that I must feel very honored to be called a
> troll by you.
>
>>
>> In short, if you're commenting with the purpose of improving Squeak,
>> you're welcome. If indeed that was your intention, then I'm looking
>> forward to your elaboration and contributions on how to improve Squeak.
>> However, if you're commenting with the only purpose of proving the
>> superiority of Pharo, you're not. You can post those comments on the
>> Pharo list where I'm sure they will be welcome.
>
> No, I'm not saying that Pharo is better that Squeak, in fact my response
> to Levente's comment was, just as his, preceded by IMHO. That is, no
> very humble from him nor from me.
>
> Now, he in fact suggested that the developers on Pharo were lesser
> capable (and maybe we are, but that don't stops us from improving Pharo
> a little each day) and that even by hiring full time developers, Pharo
> couldn't match the level of expertise that the squeak developers have.

See above.

> That is really not humble at all.
>
> Finally I was responding to a comment by Levente that seem to me very
> offensive to the Pharo developers. Had he say that in any other list I

See above.


Levente

> will have respond all the same, isn't a Squeak list trolling as you put
> it. So think what you want.
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>    - Andreas
>>
>>> This is your private club it appears, by invite only. Good luck Pavel!
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 8/24/2010 4:55 PM, Miguel Enrique Cobá Martínez wrote:
>>>>> El mié, 25-08-2010 a las 01:09 +0200, Levente Uzonyi escribió:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry, but I totally don't get what you're talking about. IMHO Pharo's
>>>>>> Kernel/Collections/Network/Compiler is (far) behind Squeak's. I think
>>>>>> Pharo lacks developers who have enough knowledge to touch those parts of
>>>>>> the system and are willing to spend their time on it. But I may be wrong,
>>>>>> so please let me know how is PharoKernel/Core better than Squeak.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> IMHO Squeak's
>>>>> Business penetration/Comercial apps/Look&Feel/Website/Logo/new blood/ is
>>>>> (far) behind Pharo's.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> full-timers now. And original goals of Squeak are very different from
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hiring more people doesn't mean it will be better.
>>>>>
>>>>> This sound like only a few genius are capable of touching those parts,
>>>>> very humble indeed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Now, shoot all you have! :)
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
> Miguel Cobá
> http://miguel.leugim.com.mx
>
>
>