We had a chat again:

* Etoys will follow the Sugar release schedule:
  http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.90/Roadmap
* should prepare a first alpha release in June, with translations and DrGeo for wider testing
* also camera support hopefully, need to simplify interface
* there is a decompiler problem, possibly because of Eliot's changes
* multi-touch working pretty well on iPad now
* need idea about how to debug missing mouse-overs

Full log below, as usual. And see you next Monday, same time:

	http://tinyurl.com/2bjpzbe

- Bert -

<bertf> hi karl
<karlram> hi
<karlram> not maye here
<karlram> many
<bertf> yep
<bertf> busy, hopefully ;)
<karlram> he he
<karlram> I had some issues with a ehancement I integrated
<karlram> enhancement
<bertf> the broken viewers?
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<bertf> ah, hi hilaire :)
<karlram> jup , it added all sort of stuff to variables categorie
<hilaire> hello
<karlram> hi
<bertf> do you think it's okay now?
<karlram> It was a one line fix
<bertf> good
<bertf> hilaire: thanks for submitting dr geo :)
<karlram> But images must get past the bad fix without opening a viewer....
<bertf> I wouldn't worry too much abouht that
<karlram> Ok
<bertf> we're just a handful people updating regularly  I think
<karlram> you are right
<bertf> do we need a do-it to fix it, if someone loaded the broken version?
<karlram> I had another issue
<karlram> deleting a etoy variable seems broken
<karlram> when  the variable is part of a etoy script
<bertf> hmm. that should be a blocker ticket
<bertf> just so it is not forgotten
<bertf> you mean when the var is already used in a script?
<karlram> I'll add it, the Decompiler complains about some issues
<bertf> ah. might have to do with eliots changes then
<karlram> Should I notify Eliot ?
<bertf> wouldn't hurt
<karlram> Ok
<bertf> in any case, we should commit to a release schedule. I think adopting the Sugar one makes sense
<karlram> and sugar release is ?
<bertf> a July release would be too rushed
<bertf> I sent mail about that, give me a second to find it
<bertf> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/0.90/Roadmap
<karlram> July seems very close
<bertf> right. september sounds sensible
<bertf> we still should try to get an alpha release out asap
<bertf> including dr geo and the new translations
<bertf> so more people can test that stuff
<karlram> Sound good
<karlram> dr geo is big , in many ways
<karlram> :-)
<karlram> a huge framework
<karlram> and lots of classes
<karlram> and lot and lots of new stuff to learn :-)
<bertf> indeed 
<bertf> but if we can get the fonts out of the image, we still will have a smaller image even with dr geo included
<bertf> richo started on that
<bertf> he pushed Andreas' font loader code
<bertf> maybe we should start freezign features a bit earlier than the Sugar schedule ...
<bertf> hilaire: did you want to talk about somethign specifically?
<karlram> what about the camera morph stuff ?
<karlram> wait another release to mature?
<hilaire> bertf: no
<bertf> karlram: no I think it would be a nice feature to have
<bertf> karlram: but I would start simple
<bertf> hilaire: okay. thanks for stopping by :)
<bertf> karlram: the current one has too many controls. we should put in just the bare minimum and then see what people find missing
<bertf> but having camera support on all platforms would be awesome
<karlram> Sounds good
<karlram> Many of the controls are a bit hard to understand :-)
<bertf> yeah
<hilaire> I need to rest
<hilaire> bye
<karlram> ye
<karlram> bye
<hilaire> add a hard time with students today..
<-- hilaire (~hilaire at bon74-1-88-184-136-97.fbx.proxad.net) has left #etoys
<karlram> Students are not always what you want them to be :-)
<karlram> I sent a mail to Eliot about http://tracker.squeakland.org/browse/SQ-710
<bertf> thanks
<bertf> I got multitouch workign this weekend :)
<bertf> on the iPad
<bertf> you can draw with more than one finger, or move multiple objects at once
<bertf> pretty cool
<bertf> now if you also could rotate and scale them with two fingers that would be awesome :)
<karlram> Oh, sound cool
<bertf> And now that I compiled the VM with enabled optimizations it's even quite usable ;)
<karlram> I remember some issues with mouse over states from earlier touch based computers
<bertf> I was using it without optimizations for like two weeks .. was rather slow
<bertf> yes, some things rely on mouse overs
<bertf> e.g. the color selector in the paint box
<bertf> I'd have thought it goes away on mouse-up, but apparently noe
<bertf> not
<bertf> hmm. your Etoys-kfr.19 looks identical ...
<karlram> I was fighting mouse over issue with SelectionMourh, very annoying....
<bertf> but there is no diff
<bertf> no changes
<karlram> Hm, very weird, my image had the wrong method still displaying...
<karlram> I got confuced...
<karlram> confused
<karlram> lol
<bertf> always check changes before committing
<karlram> I know
<karlram> Back to the mouse over issues, do you  know a good way to debug them ?
<bertf> I'd simulate at touch event 
<bertf> that is, filter out all mousemove events that have button=0
<bertf> so you only get mouse down, move, and up, but no moves after mouse up
<bertf> that should recreate the problem  on a normal machine
<karlram> ok
<karlram> ipad is not a very fast machine ?
<bertf> karlram: it feels very fast
<bertf> just not in etoys
<bertf> for Etoys it's about the XO-1 speed I would say
<bertf> so not great but usable
<bertf> okay, thanks for chatting, I'll send the log as usual :)