El vie, 05-03-2010 a las 15:45 -0800, Randal L. Schwartz escribió:
> >>>>> "Miguel" == Miguel Enrique Cobá Martinez <miguel.coba at gmail.com> writes:
> 
> Miguel> Then Squeak refuses to remove Etoys from base image, even is in process
> Miguel> the update and resync of Etoys with upstream squeakland code.
> 
> I do believe the intent is to make etoys unloadable.  If you've heard
> otherwise, can you poin at it, so that I can be up to date?

Yes, it is unloadable since a month ago like someone else said, but that
doesn't make Squeak a vehicle for deploying commercial apps? Again, as
in another thread I said, the fact you can disassemble the image doesn't
mean that you want to disassemble it for deployment.

The modularity is one thing.
The easy to deploy web/desktop images is also important.
You can give a full installed desktop linux server with gui and pidgin
and firefox and thunderbird and everything. That doesn't mean that I
would accept it for deploying my email server using it. I prefer to
start from a minimal linux install and add it only the email server. Not
search everything that I don't need and delete it manually.

That is why I refer like not commercial-friendly. There is not roadmap
that you can rely in order to base your app for a couple of years if you
don't know what direction Squeak will be going with the new board.

You don't have a defined board blessed support for oldstable images.
What will happen to current deployed 3.10 applications when 4.1 is out?
and when 4.2 is out? As you surely know, that is a very important thing
for selling a solution using Squeak. And the one-man minimal images
can't be relied on, (not because of the people behind that efforts they
are brilliant, but because the truck factor is crucial here) a community
effort is needed for the minimal images to be successful.

You don't have well defined deployment setups (the ones that Torsten
have made for one-click install are very good, as are the ones that you
can find in the lists archives, but no one place where you can go and
review all your options for deployment and not just for using a Squeak
image) Check: http://rubyonrails.org/deploy is a link in the home page
of rails. for squeak you must search the lists.

You don't have recipes for deploying Morphic apps, without all the
things you don't need to give your customers like squeakmap, universes,
monticello, etc. Again, we return to use the unload scripts and hope
that you get a working image.

Finally I apologize for stating that Squeak don't care for uses other
than educational ones, but *my opinion* is that don't ease the use for
commercial uses either.




> 
> Miguel> If the board refuses to remove etoys that is for me that they have a
> Miguel> preference for the educational use of squeak than the commercial use of
> Miguel> squeak. 
> 
> As a member of the board, I can tell you this is *not* an intent.
> 

-- 
Miguel Cobá
http://miguel.leugim.com.mx