The original poster already stated that Cincom does not own the IP, so 
your entire reply is irrelevant.

Can you post a definitive answer to the other points (excluding the 
Seagull point). Namely:

 > On Sep 2, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
 >> Cincom does not hold the IP for VSE - Seagull Software does
 >> Cincom has exclusive rights for selling and supporting VSE
 >> Seagull Software has no problem selling/donating the IP
 >> Cincom has refused to sell/donate their rights

If Cincom is not an impediment (i.e. Cincom's exclusive rights to 
sell/support VSE does not encumber the sale/donation of the VSE IP), 
then, as suggested by others, the community can approach the IP owner.

I haven't used VSE in over a decade, and am surprised at its staying 
power. I would hate to see it disappear.


James Robertson wrote:
> Cincom does not actually own the IP for VSE - when Cincom acquired 
> VisualWorks from ObjectShare (back in 1999), the limited rights to VSE 
> we do have were inherited from ObjectShare. ObjectShare had sold the IP 
> for VSE to Seagull, which later was acquired by Rocket Software.  I have 
> no idea whether that company does anything with that IP, or what level 
> of concern they have with it.
> 
> Cincom has no ability to open source VSE; we cannot open source IP which 
> we don't own.  You would have to pursue that with the people who own it.
> 
> As to stopping work, recall that VSE was EOL'd by ParcPlace-Digitalk in 
> 1997.  It's been in that state ever since.  If you look at the Smalltalk 
> products Cincom owns - ObjectShare and VisualWorks - I think you would 
> have to say that we've aggressively supported them and moved them both 
> forward.  We are committed to Smalltalk, but there is very little we can 
> do about IP we don't own.
> 
> 
> On Sep 2, 2010, at 7:53 AM, Henrik Høyer wrote:
> 
>> Dear All
>>  
>> If you have forgotten about Visual Smalltalk 
>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Smalltalk_Enterprise), it is this 
>> really cool Smalltalk dialect that enables users to build native 
>> Windows applications. Visual Smalltalk is one of the original 
>> Smalltalk dialects, and was made by Digitalk. In 1995 active 
>> development stopped when the merger between ParcPlace and Digitalk 
>> happened. VSE has since been in the hands of ParcPlace-Digitalk, then 
>> ObjectShare, and  since 1999 Cincom.
>>  
>> The state of affair of Visual Smalltalk Enterprise (VSE) is not 
>> optimal. The VSE community has make several attempts in the past to 
>> clear this up. These attempts has all been made quietly and discrete. 
>> When I left ESUG last year I was confident that there was a future for 
>> open-sourcing VSE. Unfortunately I have since learned that Cincom are 
>> not willing to change anything, and are regarding VSE as a cash cow.
>>  
>> The current status is:
>> Cincom stopped all work on the VSE platform more than a decade ago
>> Cincom continues to collect support fees for VSE
>> Cincom has raised the price for VSE licenses
>> Cincom only fixes bug on a case-by-case matter. Bugs fixed for one 
>> customer is not made available to other customers.
>> Cincom charges huge money for fixing bugs. They charge by the hour, 
>> and since they don't have the knowledge one can expect 50-100 hours 
>> for trivial fixes
>> Cincom does not hold the IP for VSE - Seagull Software does
>> Cincom has exclusive rights for selling and supporting VSE
>> Seagull Software has no problem selling/donating the IP
>> Cincom has refused to sell/donate their rights
>>  
>> Due to the above, VSE users are jumping through hoops to actually use 
>> the product on newer operating systems. To make the matters worse, 
>> every time anyone makes a bug fix, we all fear that Cincom will drop 
>> its lawyer muscle on us.
>>  
>> I believe that the time has come to stop being discrete and speak up 
>> in public. For VSE to have a future we need to act now.
>>  
>> I would love for Cincom to comment on these issues. Does Cincom really 
>> see the  free support and maintenance made by the community as a 
>> threat to their business? Are Cincom interested in actually supporting 
>> VSE, and not just collecting money from their trapped customers? Does 
>> Cincom really believe that VSE customers will migrate to other 
>> products supplied by them, taking only their word for not abandoning 
>> them again in the future?
>>  
>> Unfortunately I am not able to attend ESUG this year, but I hope that 
>> others will raise these questions.
>>  
>> I am pretty sure nobody in the Smalltalk community will benefit from 
>> the death of VSE.
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>
>> <speoplelogo3d6c.png> <http://www.sPeople.dk/>	Henrik Høyer
>> Chief Software Architect
>> hh at sppl.dk <mailto:hh at sppl.dk> • (+45) 4029 2092
>> Rued Langgaards Vej 7 • 2300 Kbh. S
>> www.sPeople.dk <http://www.sPeople.dk/> • (+45) 7023 7775
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
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