[squeak-dev] Fwd: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak
Ramon Leon
ramon.leon at allresnet.com
Wed Jun 1 17:06:53 UTC 2011
On 06/01/2011 06:58 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> Ramon, i appreciate your worries that squeak/smalltalk left behind.
I'm not worried about anything, as I said earlier, I'm productive in
spite of the awful UI. It's still an awful UI.
> But to change that, we need to do something. Experiment,
> invent better UI for us. Saying that X is better than Y because rest
> of the world does Y is not very strong argument.
Actually, it is, when it comes to user interfaces because there are
network effects involved and not being different just to be different
has huge benefits. We're not talking about Smalltalk here, we're
talking about basic UI metaphors like windows and tabs. There's nothing
innovative about Squeak/Pharo here visually, it's basic windows,
buttons, and scrollbars like every other windowing system out there. It
behaves like any OS did a decade ago before tabs were common in most
apps. Multiple document interfaces are not new, it's just a common
metaphor that Squeak/Pharo ignore to their detriment.
> Because smalltalk IDE is different comparing to other ides. And
> workflow is different. And this is the reason why smalltalkers are
> much more productive
The browser is different, but combining multiple browsers as is into a
single tabbed window doesn't change that; it's still the Smalltalk
browser. I didn't suggest changing the browser. Tabs are simply a way
to group windows together to reduce clutter. It wouldn't stop anyone
from opening multiple browser windows if they wanted to.
> In Pharo, you already have tabs - a task list at the bottom.
No. That's a window list, it's nothing like tabs for the reasons I
already explained. Tabs allow context sensitive cycling, the context
being the window.
> The problem is, that to my experience, it is not really helpful when
> you have 15+ windows open.
Of course not, because it's a window list, not a tab list.
> That's why I'm not convinced that tabs will increase the productivity.
Why would a window list convince you that tabs increase productivity?
--
Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com
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