[squeak-dev] Fwd: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak

Ramon Leon ramon.leon at allresnet.com
Wed Jun 1 17:06:53 UTC 2011


On 06/01/2011 06:58 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
> Ramon, i appreciate your worries that squeak/smalltalk left behind.

I'm not worried about anything, as I said earlier, I'm productive in 
spite of the awful UI.  It's still an awful UI.

> But to change that, we need to do something. Experiment,
> invent better UI for us. Saying that X is better than Y because rest
> of the world does Y is not very strong argument.

Actually, it is, when it comes to user interfaces because there are 
network effects involved and not being different just to be different 
has huge benefits.  We're not talking about Smalltalk here, we're 
talking about basic UI metaphors like windows and tabs.  There's nothing 
innovative about Squeak/Pharo here visually, it's basic windows, 
buttons, and scrollbars like every other windowing system out there.  It 
behaves like any OS did a decade ago before tabs were common in most 
apps.  Multiple document interfaces are not new, it's just a common 
metaphor that Squeak/Pharo ignore to their detriment.

> Because smalltalk IDE is different comparing to other ides. And
> workflow is different. And this is the reason why smalltalkers are
> much more productive

The browser is different, but combining multiple browsers as is into a 
single tabbed window doesn't change that; it's still the Smalltalk 
browser.  I didn't suggest changing the browser.  Tabs are simply a way 
to group windows together to reduce clutter.  It wouldn't stop anyone 
from opening multiple browser windows if they wanted to.

> In Pharo, you already have tabs -  a task list at the bottom.

No.  That's a window list, it's nothing like tabs for the reasons I 
already explained.  Tabs allow context sensitive cycling, the context 
being the window.

> The problem is, that to my experience, it is not really helpful when
> you have 15+ windows open.

Of course not, because it's a window list, not a tab list.

> That's why I'm not convinced that tabs will increase the productivity.

Why would a window list convince you that tabs increase productivity?

--
Ramon Leon
http://onsmalltalk.com



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