[squeak-dev] Fwd: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak

Igor Stasenko siguctua at gmail.com
Wed Jun 1 17:15:43 UTC 2011


On 1 June 2011 19:06, Ramon Leon <ramon.leon at allresnet.com> wrote:
> On 06/01/2011 06:58 AM, Igor Stasenko wrote:
>>
>> Ramon, i appreciate your worries that squeak/smalltalk left behind.
>
> I'm not worried about anything, as I said earlier, I'm productive in spite
> of the awful UI.  It's still an awful UI.
>
>> But to change that, we need to do something. Experiment,
>> invent better UI for us. Saying that X is better than Y because rest
>> of the world does Y is not very strong argument.
>
> Actually, it is, when it comes to user interfaces because there are network
> effects involved and not being different just to be different has huge
> benefits.  We're not talking about Smalltalk here, we're talking about basic
> UI metaphors like windows and tabs.  There's nothing innovative about
> Squeak/Pharo here visually, it's basic windows, buttons, and scrollbars like
> every other windowing system out there.  It behaves like any OS did a decade
> ago before tabs were common in most apps.  Multiple document interfaces are
> not new, it's just a common metaphor that Squeak/Pharo ignore to their
> detriment.
>
>> Because smalltalk IDE is different comparing to other ides. And
>> workflow is different. And this is the reason why smalltalkers are
>> much more productive
>
> The browser is different, but combining multiple browsers as is into a
> single tabbed window doesn't change that; it's still the Smalltalk browser.
>  I didn't suggest changing the browser.  Tabs are simply a way to group
> windows together to reduce clutter.  It wouldn't stop anyone from opening
> multiple browser windows if they wanted to.
>
>> In Pharo, you already have tabs -  a task list at the bottom.
>
> No.  That's a window list, it's nothing like tabs for the reasons I already
> explained.  Tabs allow context sensitive cycling, the context being the
> window.
>
>> The problem is, that to my experience, it is not really helpful when
>> you have 15+ windows open.
>
> Of course not, because it's a window list, not a tab list.
>
>> That's why I'm not convinced that tabs will increase the productivity.
>
> Why would a window list convince you that tabs increase productivity?
>
because as you said, it is same, but for different context.

Could you please sketch a small image with what you want? Where you
want to put tabs?

> --
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>


-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.



More information about the Squeak-dev mailing list