[squeak-dev] Fwd: [Pharo-project] usability of Pharo and Squeak

radoslav hodnicak rh at 4096.sk
Tue May 31 18:47:13 UTC 2011


I've worked in VisualWorks for years and routinely had 15+ windows
open (my taskbar is on the left and on autohide, I can pack a lot of
open windows before I lose overview). I've also worked in C/PHP/etc
for years and routinely had 15+ tabs open in some IDE. I vastly prefer
the first alternative, although that might be colored by the fact that
Smalltalk IDEs are more helpful than text-ish ones. I don't know why
you call that Stockholm syndrome, it's not like I only work in
Smalltalk (I wish!).

Web browsing is different, the tabs there usually aren't related to
each other so the comparison to programming IDEs doesn't apply.

rado

On Tue, May 31, 2011 at 6:35 PM, Ramon Leon <ramon.leon at allresnet.com> wrote:
> On 05/31/2011 09:09 AM, radoslav hodnicak wrote:
>>
>> Personally I'm pretty comfortable and productive with the current
>> setup and the myriad of windows I can open.
>
> I am too, but in spite of all those windows, not because of it. Stockholm
> syndrome, you've probably just gotten accustomed to it.
>
>> quickly. Tabs would introduce a new constraint of the same level we
>> already have in Squeak
>
> Tabs would make it more like practically every other program available that
> needs multiple edit windows.  Tabs are better than multiple windows.  Look
> around, tabs won; the battle is over.  Tabbed browsing of the net or 15
> instances of Firefox open?  Seriously, you think multiple windows are
> better?  Really?
>
>> full screen mode). Compare the informational value of a window color +
>> window title + window position (old code left top browser, new code
>> right bottom browser etc)
>
> Meaningless when I have 15 windows open.  Position means nothing, color
> means nothing.
>
>> with the 5 characters of text you usually
>> get to see on a tab title once you open enough of them. I routinely
>> work with tabbed text editors for non-smalltalk stuff and once you get
>> past 5-10 open tabs, it's rather awful.
>
> It's vastly better than 15 open windows.
>
>> I can see how people coming from java or something might prefer tabs,
>
> I'm a pretty solid Smalltalker, my preference for tabs has nothing to do
> with coming from Java or not being familiar with Smalltalk.
>
>> at the same time there much worse GUI problems we should fix first -
>
> False dichotomy.  You don't ignore one problem because you think others also
> exist.  All problems are valid, no need to shift the conversation to other
> issues, this one is about tabs.
>
> --
> Ramon Leon
> http://onsmalltalk.com
>
>



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