[squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..

H. Hirzel hannes.hirzel at gmail.com
Fri Dec 21 20:45:20 UTC 2012


On 12/21/12, dimitris chloupis <thekilon at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Thank you.  I am definetly going to take a look at Cuis. How compatible is
> Cuis to Squeak ?
>
> By the way I am already using Github for my first smalltalk (pharo) project
> which I call "Ephestos", together with ss3 as a backup plan.
> I dont do much with git , just the usual stuff, git push commit pull rm add
> .
>
>
> I have to say, the smalltalk field is abit confusing to me as a beginner,
> there is squeak , then there is pharo , then there is Cuis, etc etc
> Its a pity there is so much fragmentation. I am sure for some people this
> kind of freedome is cool and fun , but I personally try find ways to make
> things work together.

Yes, that is what we are trying to do as well. Making useful packages
(code external to the image) available in Squeak, Cuis and Pharo.

>
> But I have loads of fun with pharo , and definitely my eye is on Squeak too.
> I love smalltalk I wish I had discovered it earlier. But better late than
> never I guess :D

Great! You are welcome.

--Hannes

>
>
>
> ________________________________
>  From: Juan Vuletich (mail lists) <juanlists at jvuletich.org>
> To: dimitris chloupis <thekilon at yahoo.co.uk>; The general-purpose Squeak
> developers list <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> Sent: Friday, 21 December 2012, 21:33
> Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..
>
>
> Hi Dimitris,
> With Cuis, we use Github as the main place for storing packages. We use git
> as it is intended to be used. This means that we let git handle file
> versioning. Besides, Cuis uses lf as the line terminator. This means that
> git can diff and merge Cuis packages. For example see
>
> https://github.com/pbella/Cuis-Ports/commit/d2c70f95b6efee4f4d7671f432b4b304b5115c1d
> .
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich
>
> Quoting dimitris chloupis <thekilon at yahoo.co.uk>:
> SqueakMap is dead, SqueakSource dead, later SmalltalkHub will be dead.
>>
>>
>>
>>I am coming from pharo by the way, I am new with smalltalk, I was a python
>> developer.
>>And I love squeak too.
>>
>>
>>
>>I dont understand why every smalltalk problem should be solved by
>> smalltalk.
>>
>>
>>Github is a great community , already has gathered tons of ruby and python
>> projects, js and many more.
>>
>>
>>I think its a great candidate for smalltalk, no offense intended but
>> definitely better that what SmalltalkHub can offer.
>>
>>
>>
>>I want to embrace at times all these smalltalk technologies, but is hard to
>> abandon Gihub that I have used for my projects and support the smalltalk
>> solutions instead.
>>
>>
>>
>>I dont want to downgrade the hard work of good people, but its hard to
>> compete with products that are designed full time by big teams and matured
>> through thousands of use cases.
>>
>>
>>
>>My vote goes to Github.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>________________________________
>> From: Göran Krampe <goran at krampe.se>
>>To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
>> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
>>Sent: Thursday, 20 December 2012, 23:14
>>Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Squeaksource, Squeak and Pharo..
>>
>>Hi folks!
>>
>>As the author of SqueakMap, long time Squeaker (and nowadays both Squeaker
>> and Pharooner) and also involved in some other related projects
>> (SmalltalkHub and more) my view might be of some interest.
>>
>>First of all, Angel compares with the rest of the world - but we have both
>> historic and technical differences at play. Some things worth noting:
>>
>>- SqueakMap was indeed started out as a generic package *catalog*. It is
>> not a SCM tool. It was format agnostic from the very beginning.
>>
>>- Monticello and SqueakSource came from Avi. Superb tools but when
>> Squeaksource came I quickly warned the
>  community that it would deminish SqueakMap because it overlapped and "took
> over" several "catalog" aspects. I was right unfortunately, but at the same
> time SS was great and has served us very well in its own right.
>>
>>- Noone has really taken SM and moved it forward. I also don't have that
>> amount of free time anymore.
>>
>>- SqueakMap is dead. Face it. :) It is not the future IMHO.
>>
>>- Monticello and Metacello are the de facto standard these days for SCM and
>> package loading. Metacello took the whole dependencies/tagging/releases
>> issue and simply rode on MC to solve it. I have felt it looks overly
>> complex but it's mostly some line noise - it is not that complicated.
>>
>>- This also means that for a very, very long time package management and
>> source code management will be forever "intertwined" in the Smalltalk
>> world. Personally I say - fine! Again, let's just embrace it and go.
>>
>>- The advantage is that Metacello "configurations" is
>  "just code" and can offer functionality totally independent of the hosting
> platform for MC. So it doesn't matter if you load a Metacello configuration
> from a website, from SS or SS3 or Smalltalkhub - it all works the same!
>>
>>- Monticello AND Metacello are meant to work in Squeak too. I haven't
>> tried, but I presume Metacello works or is very close to working?
>>
>>- Pharo is betting hard on Smalltalkhub. It is a really nice system AND
>> there is also an image side client tool brewing for it! This means the
>> equivalence of the SqueakMap Package Loader will be easy to build in
>> Squeak for Smalltalkhub.
>>
>>
>>So my advice would be:
>>
>>1. Keep SqueakMap on oxygen for a little while longer while we get ready to
>> ditch it. Really.
>>
>>2. Bet hard on Monticello (we already do, right?) and Metacello for Squeak.
>> Make sure they work. Embrace Metacello even if it does look a bit complex
>> to begin with. There are lots of articles, tutorials and tons of
>  examples to just copy from. I have written two configurations these last
> two days and "the shit works". Good work Dale! :)
>>
>>3. Get involved in Smalltalkhub and help out making it work fine for
>> Squeak, note the name - *Smalltalk* hub. It's not Pharohub! Don't set up
>> your own unless for some odd reason Pharo makes it uninhabitable for
>> Squeak and turns it into "Pharohub".
>>
>>Note that Smalltalkhub is "just" a new SS, but much more solid
>> architecture, really snazzy modern web UI, offering githubish features and
>> bloody hell, I mean, it can show diffs right there in the browser!
>>
>>Smalltalkhub also has a really cool architecture so the coding fun is rated
>> A++, Nicolas is busy as a bee making it better, better. I think it should
>> be seen as a unifying playground and Metacello as the "glue" that makes it
>> possible to have projects tailored for both Squeak and Pharo. It has many
>> functions for EXACTLY that.
>>
>>Either way, I am putting my efforts
>  right there. IMHO the Squeak community should do so too. If the Squeak
> community can ride a bit on the momentum in Pharo - there is really no
> reason not to.
>>
>>regards, Göran
>>
>>
>>
>>
> Cheers,
> Juan Vuletich


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