Hi Stef,

S, stephane ducasse piše:

> Frankly I do not care about what other people are thinking.
> OOP is a success look at Java, C#.
> 
> Now let us keep our energy to build better Smalltalks.

Well, after hard work it is good from time to time to make a
retrospection and let our thoughts to think a bit broader, to look from
a distance to our work. To see the forest and not just trees.

So such debate from time to time is certainly refreshing and needed,
specially if it is started from a outsider's perspective. Every wise man
listen to the opinion of others. Well, of course wisely :)

In this case I see a wise thinking about weaknesses of OO and Smalltalk
and how to overcome it by better "best practices". For instance, the
newcommers are asking where to find a guidelines for modeling OO domain
models in pure OO way. In this guidelines we can emphasise above
mentioned best practices, then author's claim that  "no one really
understands to this day how to do them right" won't be valid much anymore.

Best regards
Janko


> Stef
> On Feb 11, 2012, at 1:21 PM, Janko Mivšek wrote:
> 
>> Hi guys,
>>
>> Again one interesting topic for this weekend to discuss. David Nolen, a
>> Lisp and JavaScript guy posted in his blog an article titled Illiterate
>> Programming [1] where he said:
>>
>> "...Yet I think Smalltalk still fundamentally failed (remember this is a
>> programming language originally designed to scale from children to
>> adults) because *Objects are really hard* and no-one really understands
>> to this day how to do them right...."
>>
>> He links to Alan Kay post [2] back in 1998 where he talks about problems
>> with inheritance:
>>
>> "Here are a few problems in the naive inheritance systems we use today:
>> confusions of Taxonomy and Parentage, of Specialization and Refinement,
>> of Parts and Wholes, of Semantics and Pragmatics..."
>>
>> Let we concentrate on broader "Objects are really hard and no-one really
>> understands to this day how to do them right" claim and not merely
>> inheritance, please.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Janko
>>
>> [1] http://dosync.posterous.com/illiterate-programming
>> [2]
>> http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/squeak-dev/1998-April/009261.html
>>
>> -- 
>> Janko Mivšek
>> Aida/Web
>> Smalltalk Web Application Server
>> http://www.aidaweb.si
>>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> help-smalltalk mailing list
> help-smalltalk at gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/help-smalltalk
> 

-- 
Janko Mivšek
Svetovalec za informatiko
Eranova d.o.o.
Ljubljana, Slovenija
www.eranova.si
tel:  01 514 22 55
faks: 01 514 22 56
gsm: 031 674 565