Frank,

I want to wait a bit more on the new Metacello ... I haven't received enough feedback to give me comfort that I've got the api right ... putting in early in 4.5 will presumably give me enough feedback and enough time to do something about iany changes that need to be made...

Dale

----- Original Message -----
| From: "Frank Shearar" <frank.shearar at gmail.com>
| To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 6:20:58 AM
| Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| 
| On 7 September 2012 14:25, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich at vmware.com> wrote:
| > >From my perspective I don't think that the Metacello Preview has
| > >seen enough external usage for me to feel comfortable releasing
| > >it right now ... I am waiting for feedback from real users of the
| > >scripting api ... there are a handful of people using the api, so
| > >that's a good sign.
| >
| > I will feel better when someone reports a nasty bug or complains
| > about one of the features then I will feel that it has gotten some
| > real usage and is ready to go out the door:)
| >
| > I also want to improve the bootstrap scheme which directly affects
| > the Metacello-Base package...
| >
| > With all of that said, I am constantly testing the bootstrap code
| > in both pharo and squeak, so I'm not worried as much about bugs
| > and stability as I am that I will decide to change the scripting
| > api based on feedback.
| 
| Dale, is this still your position? You'd rather not put the preview
| into the Squeak 4.4 release? It seems like it's not a critical thing
| to do, given that you and I have github/travis builds building
| against
| Squeak 4.4 (and 4.3) right now, so maybe it's not worth adding it (at
| the very last minute) to 4.4 Agreed?
| 
| Then if you do change your mind or get feedback or whatever, we can
| put a seed Metacello in 4.5 early in the release cycle.
| 
| frank
| 
| > Dale
| >
| > ----- Original Message -----
| > | From: "H. Hirzel" <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com>
| > | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2012 3:55:20 AM
| > | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| > |
| > | On 8/23/12, Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com> wrote:
| > | > On 6 August 2012 16:17, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | > wrote:
| > | >> Frank,
| > | >>
| > | >> For the automated builds, I want to use the latestAvailable
| > | >> download as my
| > | >> test bed, because that's  the scenario I want to test:
| > | >>
| > | >>   - download image
| > | >>   - execute Metacello
| > | >>
| > | >> I have ensured that with the patch Metacello runs against
| > | >> Squeak4.4 so I
| > | >> can wait until the patch gets processed and then turn on my
| > | >> automated
| > | >> builds....
| > | >
| > | > I've kind've lost track of what more we need to do, Dale. Shall
| > | > we
| > | > shake out the builderCI failure first before dropping
| > | > Metacello-Base
| > | > into 4.4, or do you think they're unrelated issues?
| > | >
| > | > frank
| > |
| > | Any news about including Metacello for 4.4?
| > |
| > | --Hannes
| > |
| > |
| > | >>
| > | >> ----- Original Message -----
| > | >> | From: "Frank Shearar" <frank.shearar at gmail.com>
| > | >> | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | >> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | >> | Sent: Monday, August 6, 2012 12:29:25 AM
| > | >> | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| > | >> |
| > | >> | On 6 August 2012 05:43, Dale Henrichs <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | >> | wrote:
| > | >> | > Frank,
| > | >> | >
| > | >> | > FYI: It appears that the Squeak4.4 available from Jenkins
| > | >> | > does
| > | >> | > not
| > | >> | > have the patched Environment loaded ... so travis ci
| > | >> | > builds
| > | >> | > fail...
| > | >> | >
| > | >> | > Let me know when the patch is integrated and I'll turn the
| > | >> | > travis
| > | >> | > ci builds back on ...
| > | >> |
| > | >> | Hi Dale,
| > | >> |
| > | >> | The necessary change - Environments-fbs.5 - is sitting in
| > | >> | the
| > | >> | Inbox
| > | >> | waiting for review. If it helps, you could always
| > | >> | cherry-pick
| > | >> | that?
| > | >> |
| > | >> | frank
| > | >> |
| > | >> | > Dale
| > | >> | >
| > | >> | > ----- Original Message -----
| > | >> | > | From: "Frank Shearar" <frank.shearar at gmail.com>
| > | >> | > | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | >> | > | <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | >> | > | Sent: Sunday, August 5, 2012 11:07:20 AM
| > | >> | > | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | On 4 August 2012 20:00, Dale Henrichs
| > | >> | > | <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | >> | > | wrote:
| > | >> | > | > Okay,
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > Using Frank's 4.4 trunk (update 12154) you can load
| > | >> | > | > Metacello-Base-dkh.98 from
| > | >> | > | > http://seaside.gemstone.com/ss/metacello and then use
| > | >> | > | > the
| > | >> | > | > Metacello Preview scripting API[1].
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | Hi Dale,
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | Now that the infrastructure seems to be settling down,
| > | >> | > | it
| > | >> | > | looks
| > | >> | > | like
| > | >> | > | a
| > | >> | > | good source for an up-to-date trunk image is
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> http://squeakci.org/job/SqueakTrunk/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/target/TrunkImage.image.
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | > As reported earlier, there are still some test
| > | >> | > | > failures in
| > | >> | > | > MetacelloPreview 1.0-beta.32.2, but the fixes are to
| > | >> | > | > the
| > | >> | > | > tests
| > | >> | > | > and
| > | >> | > | > not the functional code base, so I'd say you can
| > | >> | > | > include
| > | >> | > | > Metacello-Base-dkh.98 in 4.4 at your leisure.
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > To load the basic Metacello functionality, you can use
| > | >> | > | > the
| > | >> | > | > Scripting API to load another configuration or execute
| > | >> | > | > the
| > | >> | > | > following:
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | >   Metacello new
| > | >> | > | >     configuration: 'MetacelloPreview';
| > | >> | > | >     version: #stable;
| > | >> | > | >     gemsource: 'metacello';
| > | >> | > | >     load: 'batch'.
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > \to load the tests, exedute:
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | >   Metacello new
| > | >> | > | >     configuration: 'MetacelloPreview';
| > | >> | > | >     version: #stable;
| > | >> | > | >     gemsource: 'metacello';
| > | >> | > | >     load: 'TravisCI'.
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | Just to get things completely clear in my head, these
| > | >> | > | are
| > | >> | > | instructions
| > | >> | > | for Metacello users post-inclusion, right? They're not
| > | >> | > | actions
| > | >> | > | that
| > | >> | > | we
| > | >> | > | need to follow other than pushing Metacello-Base into
| > | >> | > | the
| > | >> | > | trunk,
| > | >> | > | right?
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | frank
| > | >> | > |
| > | >> | > | > I'll release 1.0-beta.32.3 in a week or so, but I'll
| > | >> | > | > just
| > | >> | > | > update
| > | >> | > | > the #stable definition, so the above expressions
| > | >> | > | > should be
| > | >> | > | > used
| > | >> | > | > to
| > | >> | > | > guarantee that you're picking up the latest release...
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > Dale
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > [1]
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> https://github.com/dalehenrich/metacello-work/blob/master/docs/MetacelloScriptingAPI.md
| > | >> | > | >
| > | >> | > | > ----- Original Message -----
| > | >> | > | > | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | >> | > | > | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | >> | > | > | <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | >> | > | > | Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 4:19:58 PM
| > | >> | > | > | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| > | >> | > | > |
| > | >> | > | > | After the patch, a reasonable number of test issues:
| > | >> | > | > |
| > | >> | > | > |   695 run, 691 passes, 0 expected failures, 2
| > | >> | > | > |   failures,
| > | >> | > | > |   2
| > | >> | > | > |   errors,
| > | >> | > | > |   0
| > | >> | > | > |   unexpected passes
| > | >> | > | > |
| > | >> | > | > | Dale
| > | >> | > | > |
| > | >> | > | > | ----- Original Message -----
| > | >> | > | > | | From: "Dale Henrichs" <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | >> | > | > | | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | >> | > | > | | <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | >> | > | > | | Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 1:25:57 PM
| > | >> | > | > | | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and Squeak4.4
| > | >> | > | > | |
| > | >> | > | > | | Sounds fair to me ... I'll patch my current in
| > | >> | > | > | | place
| > | >> | > | > | | and
| > | >> | > | > | | kick
| > | >> | > | > | | off
| > | >> | > | > | | the
| > | >> | > | > | | tests again ...
| > | >> | > | > | |
| > | >> | > | > | | Thanks guys,
| > | >> | > | > | |
| > | >> | > | > | | Dale
| > | >> | > | > | |
| > | >> | > | > | | ----- Original Message -----
| > | >> | > | > | | | From: "Frank Shearar" <frank.shearar at gmail.com>
| > | >> | > | > | | | To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list"
| > | >> | > | > | | | <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
| > | >> | > | > | | | Sent: Friday, August 3, 2012 1:20:57 PM
| > | >> | > | > | | | Subject: Re: [squeak-dev] Metacello and
| > | >> | > | > | | | Squeak4.4
| > | >> | > | > | | |
| > | >> | > | > | | | On 3 August 2012 21:17, Colin Putney
| > | >> | > | > | | | <colin at wiresong.com>
| > | >> | > | > | | | wrote:
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | > On Fri, Aug 3, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Dale Henrichs
| > | >> | > | > | | | > <dhenrich at vmware.com>
| > | >> | > | > | | | > wrote:
| > | >> | > | > | | | >>
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> Frank,
| > | >> | > | > | | | >>
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> The Metacello tests add/remove global
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> variables
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> to/from
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> Smalltalk
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> and it
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> looks like Environment does not implement
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> #removeKey:ifAbsent:,
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> so
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> I've got
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> some 400 test failures because I can't remove
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> a
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> global
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> from
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> Smalltalk ...
| > | >> | > | > | | | >>
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> I can hack this for the time being but I'm
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> curious
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> what
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> the
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> longer
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> term
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> plan will be with regards to removing global
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> variables
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> from
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> Smalltalk or
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> perhaps leaving #removeKey:ifAbsent: out is
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> inadvertent
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> ...
| > | >> | > | > | | | >>
| > | >> | > | > | | | >> BTW, I'm using update 12154 ...
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | > First, Environments is being pushed to Squeak
| > | >> | > | > | | | > 4.5,
| > | >> | > | > | | | > so
| > | >> | > | > | | | > it
| > | >> | > | > | | | > should
| > | >> | > | > | | | > be
| > | >> | > | > | | | > removed
| > | >> | > | > | | | > from 4.4 shortly.
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | > During the development period for 4.5,
| > | >> | > | > | | | > Environments
| > | >> | > | > | | | > will
| > | >> | > | > | | | > implement
| > | >> | > | > | | | > #removeKey:ifAbsent:, but eventually that will
| > | >> | > | > | | | > be
| > | >> | > | > | | | > deprecated in
| > | >> | > | > | | | > favour of
| > | >> | > | > | | | > #undeclare: or something similar.
| > | >> | > | > | | |
| > | >> | > | > | | | For the nonce, how about we implement
| > | >> | > | > | | | #removeKey:ifAbsent:
| > | >> | > | > | | | (see
| > | >> | > | > | | | Inbox), so we can at least unblock Dale?
| > | >> | > | > | | |
| > | >> | > | > | | | We do need to remove Environments, but Dale's
| > | >> | > | > | | | work
| > | >> | > | > | | | contributes to
| > | >> | > | > | | | ensuring/checking 4.4's stability.
| > | >> | > | > | | |
| > | >> | > | > | | | frank
| > | >> | > | > | | |
| > | >> | > | > | | | > Colin
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | | >
| > | >> | > | > | | |
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| > | >> | > |
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| > | >> | >
| > | >> |
| > | >> |
| > | >>
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| 
|