OT: The shift to agriculture (was Re: [squeak-dev] Fwd: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing)Casey Ransberger casey.obrien.r at gmail.comWed Apr 3 05:27:06 UTC 2013
I'm not sure we've successfully completed a shift to agriculture at all. Some of the problems that modern societies still struggle with are directly related to the fact that we're (instinctively) better at hunting/gathering than agriculture, e.g. we have expensive overflowing prisons, whereas a hunter/gatherer who serially violated social norms would likely be left to hunt and gather alone, a fate roughly equivalent to death (unless a position in another social group could be obtained.) Sounds a bit like getting fired from a job, no? I think that might be what Alan meant about the knee capping, but I'm not him so I don't know for sure. On Apr 2, 2013, at 7:03 PM, mokurai at earthtreasury.org wrote: > Actually, it was agriculture that led to the idea of government as a > protection racket and to kneecapping or worse of those who refused to pay > their taxes. Hunter-gatherer cultures are tribal, not national, and far > more cooperative. I have historical and archaeological data on this if > anybody needs it. Or you could watch The Gods Must Be Crazy and its sequel > for humorous examples. > > "Run and tell everybody to come and help us eat this elephant." (Killed by > poachers, who took the tusks and left the body.) > > On Tue, April 2, 2013 4:11 pm, Yoshiki Ohshima wrote: >> Benoit, >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Alan Kay <alan.nemo at yahoo.com> >> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:57 AM >> Subject: Re: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> To: Yoshiki Ohshima <Yoshiki.Ohshima at acm.org> >> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> >> >> >> Ask him: how did the invention of agriculture influence "civilization"? >> >> Or: what is ultimately more powerful, competition or cooperation? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Alan >> >> ________________________________ >> From: Yoshiki Ohshima <Yoshiki.Ohshima at acm.org> >> To: Alan Kay <alan.nemo at yahoo.com> >> Cc: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> >> Sent: Tuesday, April 2, 2013 11:47 AM >> Subject: Fwd: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> >> Benoit is asking this. >> >> ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Benoît Fleury <benoit.fleury at gmail.com> >> Date: Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 11:36 AM >> Subject: Re: [squeakland] The Dynabook and modern computing >> To: Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> >> Cc: IAEP SugarLabs <iaep at lists.sugarlabs.org>, squeakland list >> <squeakland at squeakland.org> >> >> >> Thank you Bert for the link. >> >> I am not sure to understand this metaphor with agriculture. >> >> "One way to think of all of these organizations is to realize that if >> they require a charismatic leader who will shoot people in the knees >> when needed, then the corporate organization and process is a failure. >> It means no group can come up with a good decision and make it stick >> just because it is a good idea. All the companies I’ve worked for have >> this deep problem of devolving to something like the hunting and >> gathering cultures of 100,000 years ago. If businesses could find a >> way to invent “agriculture” we could put the world back together and >> all would prosper." >> >> If someone could explain me what it means. >> >> Thanks, >> Benoit. >> >> >> On Tue, Apr 2, 2013 at 1:38 PM, Bert Freudenberg <bert at freudenbergs.de> >> wrote: >>> Time interviews Alan Kay: >>> >>> http://techland.time.com/2013/04/02/an-interview-with-computing-pioneer-alan-kay/ >>> >>> - Bert - >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> squeakland mailing list >>> squeakland at squeakland.org >>> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> _______________________________________________ >> squeakland mailing list >> squeakland at squeakland.org >> http://lists.squeakland.org/mailman/listinfo/squeakland >> >> >> -- >> -- Yoshiki >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- Yoshiki >> >> > > > -- > Edward Mokurai > (默雷/निशब्दगर्ज/نشبدگرج) > Cherlin > Silent Thunder is my name, and Children are my nation. > The Cosmos is my dwelling place, the Truth my destination. > http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Replacing_Textbooks > > >
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