Squeak wants to be a platform with support for legacy applications, and
slow and smooth progress.
Pharo explicitely cannot afford that (too expensive).
It could also be the platform for rebasing Etoys, but I don't know what's
up on this front.


2013/10/29 Pavel Krivanek <squeak1 at continentalbrno.cz>

> Hi Frank,
>
> spending few minutes on it, I was able to produce very very dirty
> image (4.6MB). I did only  few small changes. Use patch002.st, I
> attach patch001.st only for diff purposes. I only tried to make it
> work somehow and made the resultant image responsive.
> I was not able to recompile all the classes so I simply used ifError:
> statement so many of methods is still not recompiled. That's one
> reason why the resultant image is so dirty. The script works on my
> Linux machine, no clue what will it do on Mac or Win.
> You should look at the patch002.st, compare patched methods with
> recent versions. Maybe some currently do not need any change. The
> patch does not provide good or final solutions, it only shows the most
> creaking places.
>
> I can help but you should understand that for me it's time I steal
> from Pharo that has much higher priority for me. I do not understand
> what Squeak is now and what it wants to be and I do not know last
> changes in it.
>
> -- Pavel
>
> 2013/10/29 Frank Shearar <frank.shearar at gmail.com>:
> > I know, Pavel.
> >
> > If you want to see Squeak shrink faster, and finally catch up with
> > your sterling work from ages ago, please take the image in
> > http://build.squeak.org/job/SqueakTrunk/573/artifact/*zip*/archive.zip
> > and see if I haven't broken anything. In particular, poke around the
> > Parser, because Nicolas and I saw some problems in the update stream a
> > while ago concerning Parser.
> >
> > Because one of the most serious non-technical problems that Squeak has
> > is lack of people.
> >
> > frank
> >
> > On 29 October 2013 08:42, Pavel Krivanek <squeak1 at continentalbrno.cz>
> wrote:
> >> Hi Nicolas,
> >>
> >> for Squeak we were able to shrink the system to a small kernel and
> >> reload and initialize the Morphic back long ago. In 2006. Two years
> >> before Pharo started to exist. The reason why Pharo can do it now and
> >> Squeak not is not technical.
> >>
> >> Cheers,
> >> -- Pavel
> >>
> >> 2013/10/25 Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com>:
> >>> The problems you are going to face are:
> >>> 1) you need a good package delimitation, with clear contracts (on which
> >>> package/API do I depend?) both in the Squeak image (to save the
> package that
> >>> you want to see reloaded) and in Pharo
> >>> 2) the package delimitation has to be in good agreement, because the MC
> >>> tools do not deal with package refactoring
> >>> 3) since API are not in agreement, you gonna need plenty of glue for
> working
> >>> around changes like trimBoth, includesSubstring: etc...
> >>>
> >>> What are your goals exactly?
> >>>
> >>> A) you want to build on top of smaller kernel?
> >>> Then once you have 1), why should you go into Pharo rather than
> building on
> >>> top of your Squeak kernel?
> >>>
> >>> B) you want to profit by clean-ups and refactorings and shiny new
> >>> architecture made in Pharo?
> >>> Then yes, porting some interesting Squeak bits to Pharo has some value.
> >>> But that means you spend a lot of efforts for maintaining those bits
> alive.
> >>> That means switching from old file system to new one, switching from
> old
> >>> text system to (yet future) new one, switching to Spec, switching to
> >>> Settings, Announcements etc...
> >>>
> >>> C) You have no specific goals, just want to follow the momentum, but
> keep
> >>> your confortable Squeak slippers?
> >>> If you end up with hacks for loading all the old Squeak mud, then
> you'll end
> >>> up with Squeak, just a different Squeak, and unless you enjoy jumping
> many
> >>> hurdles, I don't see the point.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2013/10/25 Edgar De Cleene <edgardec2005 at gmail.com>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> De: Nicolas Cellier <nicolas.cellier.aka.nice at gmail.com>
> >>>> Responder a: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> >>>> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> >>>> Fecha: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 14:06:43 +0200
> >>>> Para: The general-purpose Squeak developers list
> >>>> <squeak-dev at lists.squeakfoundation.org>
> >>>> Asunto: Re: [squeak-dev] SqueakTrunk image on build.squeak.orgbroken?
> >>>>
> >>>> Yes, Pharo is doing a great work of simplification.
> >>>> On the other hand, it deliberately has zero requirements to make
> removed
> >>>> parts reloadable, so the task is a bit easier...
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Still exploring and understanding his system, but reporting
> >>>> ReferenceStream to Pharo 2.0 and having DependencyBrowser of Squeak
> working
> >>>> on it, a long time work could be put our view of Morphic on top of his
> >>>> kernel.
> >>>>
> >>>> Or Cuis Morph hierarchy.
> >>>>
> >>>> Edgar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
>
>
>
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