On 10 February 2014 22:52, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Göran, Hi Gilad, Hi All,
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Göran Krampe <goran at krampe.se> wrote:
>
>> Hi fellow Small-speak-new-talkers!
>>
>> Cross-posting continues...
>>
>>
>> On 02/10/2014 06:47 PM, Gilad Bracha wrote:
>>
>>> I should know better than to get involved in this sad affair.
>>>
>>
>> Muaahaa! Fail! :) (yes, I am actually injecting some humor here)
>>
>>  I will note that when the Smalltalk GSoc effort started, I was
>>> *explicitly asked to participate*. I myself noted that Newspeak is
>>>
>>> sufficiently different from Smalltalk that it should be regarded as a
>>> different language, but was assured that this effort was designed to be
>>> inclusive of anything in the Smalltalk family.
>>>
>>
>> Just to give you +1 on the Smalltalk family part. I mean, hell, we even
>> share the VM!
>>
>> And I am not sure people understand how important this has been for us
>> Squeak/Pharooners, AFAIK a LOT of the work from Eliot has been done through
>> Newspeakish money, right?
>>
>
> Yes.  I've worked for Cadence twice.  Once in 2007 to 2008 where I first
> worked on the Squeak interpreter and added immutability.  Form there, now
> familiar with VMMaker I went to Qwaq and got to create Cog.  I'm now back
> at Cadence and able to continue to work on Cog.  In particular, Spur has
> only been possible because of my boss at Cadence, Yaron Kashai.  At Cadence
> we're using Newspeak to implement systems for SoaC integration.  Without
> Newspeak there would be no Spur.  WIthout Newspeak the Cog VM would not be
> nearly as developed or reliable.
>
> I don't want to stoke the flames but I do hope that the community will
> consider Newspeak as part of the Smalltalk family.  It is definitely a
> blood relative.  Don't treat it like a black sheep.
>
>

I am not arguing whether Newspeak belongs to smalltalk family or not
(clearly it is).
The point is that 'S' letter in ESUG stands for Smalltalk, not Newspeak.
(else we should be naming it properly - ENUG).
So, the question is whether any non-smalltalk project is eligible to run
and compete (because there is limited number of slots) with smalltalk
projects under ESUG umbrella?

If ESUG would take such road, i bet soon you will find many angry mentors,
who was outvoted/outnumbered by "cool" PHP-MySql web projects.




>
>> [SNIP]
>>
>>  I have no interest in starting a flame war here - I have watched the
>>> recent goings on on this list with a feeling of great sadness. I have
>>> done what I can to help Smalltalk, and individuals in that community
>>> (you know who you are) and will continue to do so.
>>>
>>
>> Cool!
>>
>> The Smalltalk community is full of passion. Sometimes we end up flaming
>> all out - although very seldom I think compared to many other communities
>> (or so I hear). I have always been proud of that in our community.
>>
>> This time it was sad that it went so far that I fear the main combatants
>> have a hard time getting through and shaking hands in the end?! It also
>> shows how two non-native english writers - both with fast fingers - can
>> really... make a mess :)
>>
>> 3 timesRepeat: [
>>         If you do though - *that* would be the true mark of leaders]
>>
>> regards, Göran
>>
>> PS. I decided a looooong time ago after a bad clash with Andreas (rest
>> his soul) that... what the hell, life is too short for political crap! Move
>> on, have fun, write code. So, spent 10 minutes on this post - now back to
>> hacking protobuf support for Squeak and Pharo! Yiha!
>
>
> Amen!
> Eliot
>
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>


-- 
Best regards,
Igor Stasenko.
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