[squeak-dev] Re: Mac Squeak binary virtual machine for Squeak 3.10.2

Chris Cunnington brasspen at gmail.com
Tue Jun 9 17:00:54 UTC 2015

I’ll look at this in two parts. The initial question was about running a 3.10.2 image. I’ll address that here. [1] 

I know how you feel. For sure. But I think you assessment is a bit harsh. I mean, 3.10 came out ten years ago and this too small a community to support something so old. (Though I have heard the Windows vm.s are better for backward compatibility.) 

Squeak and Pharo are better than open source Smalltalk was ten years ago. By far. No question. What’s missing is an application to publicize that a bit the way Seaside did. 

For what it’s worth, Sam Adams at IBM has been doing interesting work about deterministic programming with a stripped down, MVC only Squeak. Actually, he uses lots of  of them. I think they talk to each other and such. [2] 

I can admit that people in the Smalltalk communities can be unpleasant. I was amazed and liberated that you were insulted by a member of this community. I thought to myself “If the father of MVC is not shown respect here then how smart do I have to be? Who is safe?” The answer is no one. That was unfortunate. 

And now you’ve been embarrassed for recommending Squeak to a friend and they’ve baulked. 

But you, in your heart of heart don’t believe Squeak or Pharo is headed for the dustbin. Nor do you really want to leave us behind. If you did you wouldn’t be telling me. 

You need to either port your app to a current Squeak/Pharo or find a vm that works. You’re Trygve Reenskaug. Don’t let the people here forget it. I can assure you that there is a deep sense of embarrassment for how you were treated here before. I consider it likely people will respond more readily to help you. I mean, who invented MVC here? 


[1] Download a 3.10 from http://ftp.squeak.org <http://ftp.squeak.org/>. Try to open it with a Cog vm. Doesn’t work. Go to http://www.squeakland.org/download <http://www.squeakland.org/download> vm and it works for me. You need an interpreter vm. In fact, a person asked a question about such a vm on Mac yesterday. If you go here http://squeakvm.org/mac/ <http://squeakvm.org/mac/> and download the Squeak 4.2.5beta1U it should work as well. I just tested these on an OS X 10.10.3 

[2] http://stefan-marr.de/renaissance/ <http://stefan-marr.de/renaissance/>

> On Jun 9, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Trygve Reenskaug <trygver at ifi.uio.no> wrote:
> Hi Chris,
> I'm sorry to say that your advice didn't work. Worse: The Squeak community has lost a valuable contributor, a prime mover in the patterns and agile communities and the author of several books on OO. My friend wrote:
> " I still can’t find a version of Squeak for my Mac that will run Trygve’s current BabyIDE. At this point, even if one appears, it is obvious that my dependence on “the introvert Squeak community” will put me in a much more fragile position than with any of my other concept proofs. It will be extremely difficult to build a future on such fragile foundations."
> I came to Xerox PARC and Smalltalk in 1978 where I made my contributions to Smalltalk-80. Since then, I have been working almost exclusively with Smalltalk. My company invested in a VW class library of more than 100,000 lines of Smalltalk code and used it in our consulting. A strong selling point was that our tenders were accompanied by a demo version of the program we offered to deliver. Our library and applications were repeatedly threatened by new versions of VW. The code is now dead; there is no VM that will run our old images. The investment is lost.
> I hoped Squeak would be better. It isn't. Squeak is less stable than VW ever was. My new programming paradigm, DCI, is supported by BabyIDE that runs under Squeak 3.10. I have ported BabyIDE to 4.5, but there are new bugs caused by differences between 3.10 and 4.5. The result is that I have reverted to 3.10 because it's too much hassle to run after the stream of Squeak releases. I thought Pharo would be better, but their mailing list conversations indicate that they do not understand that developers need a stable foundation for their work.
> The result is that I too leave Smalltalk and concentrate on other environments. A pity, because I still believe Smalltalk has the potential to become a superior environment for non-professional programmers. I am particularly thinking of children and experts such as computational chemists who use computers in their work.
> It's very painful, but I am now terminating development work in Squeak leave the Squeak and Pharo mailing lists. I will continue my work in  some mainstream language. I have just done some work in Java with Netbeans and I am buying a book on JavaScript. It's heavy going, but better that working for the dustbin.
> Cheers
> --Trygve
> On 31.05.2015 16:52, Trygve Reenskaug  wrote:
> Hi,
> A friend of mine is doing some experiments using a Mac and my program Baby IDE.  BabyIDE is works under Squeak 3.10.2. Is there a binary virtual machine for a current Mac that he can use?
> On 31.05.2015 17:00, Chris Cunnington wrote:
>> You need a non-Cog vm. I usually download any Etoys vm. [1]
>> From there, drag it onto the vm or right click, choose “Open With” and choose Etoys. 
>> Chris 
>> [1] http://squeakland.org/download/ <http://squeakland.org/download/>
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