IMHO we should reconsider how project saving works. ImageSegments were a
good technology back when machines and the interpreter VM was slow. Now we
have faster machines and VMs so this very VM-dependent mechanism is no
needed anymore.

Yoshiki's S-Expression format is one way to serialize, yes. We have used it
for the QuickGuide projects in the Squeakland image. In the short term it's
a good option. However, for more general project saving we may want to take
a look at other serialization schemes.

I think we should deprecate ImageSegment. Is there any active use of them?
I seem to remember SqueakMap used them but I'm not sure.

- Bert -

On Sat, Aug 27, 2016 at 3:07 PM, Tim Felgentreff <timfelgentreff at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> in the process of updating Squeakland etoys to load in 5.1,we have also
> made the sexp format project saving and loading work again. This might be a
> VM independent way forward for storing projects.
>
> Regarding loading old projects, Bert has an experimental OldSegmentLoader
> that can load pre-Spur segments into 5.1
>
> best,
> Tim
>
> Herbert König <herbertkoenig at gmx.net> schrieb am Fr., 26. Aug. 2016,
> 15:40:
>
>> Thanks Hannes,
>>
>> I'll let you know.
>>
>> A typical image of mine contains lots of projects with documentation
>> and ideas I need to be able to save.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Herbert
>>
>> Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:43:06 +0100
>> schrieb "H. Hirzel" <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > Hallo Herbert
>> >
>> > I am currently using the 5.1 release for development.
>> >
>> > I think it was
>> >
>> > 4 fixes in the Inbox and I just filed them in an Squeak 4.6 image
>> > (updated from the Squeak 4.6 all-in-one-release) in December 2015
>> >
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-781-mcz-td4864083.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Trunk-System-cwp-782-mcz-td4864086.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-cwp-1055-mcz-td4864087.html
>> > http://forum.world.st/The-Inbox-Morphic-jmg-1055-mcz-td4864091.html
>> >
>> > It this is not sufficient give me some time to dig out that 4.6 image
>> > from the archive and try to recover what I did.
>> >
>> > --Hannes
>> >
>> >
>> > On 8/26/16, Herbert König <herbertkoenig at gmx.net> wrote:
>> > > Hi Hannes,
>> > >
>> > > any tips how to get at that image and what VM to use? I still use
>> > > 4.4 for development and later versions just for deployment.
>> > >
>> > > Thanks,
>> > >
>> > > Herbert
>> > >
>> > > Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:16:03 +0100
>> > > schrieb "H. Hirzel" <hannes.hirzel at gmail.com>:
>> > >
>> > >> Hello Vaidotas
>> > >>
>> > >> It can confirm that Project saving worked again in Squeak 4.6 in
>> > >> December 2015 with the fixes applied done by Colin Putney[1]. I did
>> > >> some tests then.
>> > >>
>> > >> The  64bit image is experimental.
>> > >>
>> > >> I just tested Project saving in Squeak 5.1 (32bit image) in
>> > >> MSWindows and on Linux. It does not work either. So we need to
>> > >> wait for a VM update.
>> > >>
>> > >> Regards
>> > >> Hannes
>> > >>
>> > >> [1] http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> > >> <citation>
>> > >> With these four changes, it's possible to save and load projects
>> > >> in a Squeak 4.6 image. It doesn't work in a trunk image, however.
>> > >> The Spur VM crashes when saving a project. I've reported that on
>> > >> the VM list. It also fails to load an image segment - looks like
>> > >> the primitive for that isn't quite finished in Spur.
>> > >> </citation>
>> > >>
>> > >> On 8/26/16, Herbert König <herbertkoenig at gmx.net> wrote:
>> > >> > Hi Vaidotas,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > according to the end of
>> > >> > http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/6218
>> > >> > this is now a VM problem. The image side shold have been solved.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > From older discussions I remember that environments are too
>> > >> > deeply entangled with the guts of Squeak that it's not feasible
>> > >> > to remove them again.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > And then some people may use them.
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Cheers,
>> > >> >
>> > >> > Herbert
>> > >> >
>> > >> >  Am Fri, 26 Aug 2016 13:46:40 +0300
>> > >> > schrieb Vaidotas Didžbalis <vaidasd at gmail.com>:
>> > >> >
>> > >> >> Hello,
>> > >> >> Project saving is broken. When trying to save Morphic project to
>> > >> >> disk on 64bit image on Windows user is locked in the loop of
>> > >> >> popping up emergency evaluator, you have to kill Squeak as a OS
>> > >> >> process. See the docking bar, the second menu item is the
>> > >> >> Project menu. We need to add this to the known Issues session
>> > >> >> of the 5.1 release notes at least. This bug was pushed with
>> > >> >> Environments package since 4.5. Is anyone uses Environments?
>> > >> >> Can they be removed? Why Environments is not loadable package?
>> > >> >> regards, Vaidotas
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >> >
>> > >>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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