hi Kjell,

I'm sorry, I couldn't parse what you wrote.
Too many subjects and is formatted like bot generated poetry.

cheers -ben

On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 5:04 AM, Kjell Godo <squeaklist at gmail.com> wrote:
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> I think that in Smalltalk a
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>      Haskell Arrow
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>      is just a 1 input valuable plus some composition methods
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>      like
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>>>into: = return a function composition ,
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>      ( f into: g ) = [ :x | g value: ( f value: x ) ]
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>>>pair: = return a do both functions and return a size 2 Array ,
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>      ( f pair: g ) = [ :x | Array with:( f value: x )with:( g value: x ) ]
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>>>binOp: = return a binary op on Array ,
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>      ( p binOp: b ) = [ :array | b value:( p value:( array first ) )
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>                                                value:( p value:( array
> second ) ) ]
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>>>doAt1 = return a do function on p's Array at:1 and return Array ,
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>      ( p doAt1 ) = [ :array | array at:1put:( p value: ( array first ) ) ;
> yourself ]
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>>>doAt2 = return a do function on Array at:2 and return Array ,
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>      ( p doAt2 ) = [ :array | array
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>                                                  at:2put:( p value: ( array
> second ) ) ;
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>                                                  yourself ]<---------------[
> is faster ]
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>      ( p doAt2 ) = ( p swap into: doAt1 ) swap <---------[ it's shorter it's
> simpler ]
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>>>swap = return a do p and return Array transposed
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>      ( p swap ) = [ :x | ( p value: x ) reverse ]
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> etc ( a 1 input valuable is anything that responds to #value: )
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> Haskell seems to get a lot of mileage out of this
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>      kind of Category theoretical
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>      function composition
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> and no doubt the Haskell type system aids in this
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>      and practically Maybe demands it
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>      and makes it really convoluted
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>           they rebelled against lispy simplicity
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>                in order to make it simple   in order to not to scare the
> newbies
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>           they dumped all the parens overboard
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>           replaced them all with a complicated set of precedent rules
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>           so now you got to have a parser in your head
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>           to read the stuff
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>           and if you don't where you gonna get one
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>           is that guy going to parse it for you     i don't think so
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>           which far from making it easier
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>           for anybody but a rank newbie       a ranking newbie  got to
> impressem
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>           this induced parserhead requirement on human
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>           Haskell code readers
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>           instead of making it any easier makes it really really hard   out
> on the deep end
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>           of the pool   there is a tremendous drop off    a under water
> cliff
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>                where newbies who reach puberty  begin hanging thenselves
> out to dry
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>                which doesn't really work     cause they keep getting   all
> wet
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>           and this may well be a great resistance to
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>           Haskell uptake
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>           and seems to be an endless source of
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>           confusion contusion and discussion as meetup people's
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>           personal Haskell brain pan parsers shift in and out
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>           of true conformity to the standard
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>           as we speak    as we keep on speaking
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>           and
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>                No wait-
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>           s abound
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>           but the people who got a Haskell parser in they head
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>                they say  oh no  I'm not going through That again
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>                No you get a parser in your head
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>                or you're out
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> but i regress  -digress!
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>      The Smalltalk runtime type system makes it a lot
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>      simpler to see what is going on
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>      so i wonder
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>      what effect this kind of function composition
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>      style could have on Smalltalk code
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> Where maybe you have a bunch of Methods
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>      that just return 1 input valuables
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>           ( [ :x | ... ] ,    SomeFunctionClass>>value: ,    etc )
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>      which then get turned into Arrows
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>      and get categorically indubitably functionally composed
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> who knows what could happen
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> the Objects themselves in this functional Smalltalk style could be
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>      mostly empty except for accessors
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> and then stateless Traits
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>      could be the functions
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> or there could be separate stateless functional Classes
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>      that have the stateless functions
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>      which could be pluggable
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>      on multiple different applicable Object Classes
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>           ( kind of a pluggable multiple inheritance thing going on )( ? )
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> because
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>      supposedly
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>      then
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>      you can make new functions
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>      by just using
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>      very simplified
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>           composition expressions
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>           as in the short example above       ( p doAt2 ) = ^( p swap into:
> doAt1 ) swap
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>      as opposed to having to know a lot about
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>           all the inputs and all about how the sends are supposed to fit
> together
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>           involving lots of looking things up over and over
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>      the composition combinators do all that
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>           for you
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>      or so the combinator propaganda goes
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> but is it really true
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>      or do you have to know just as much
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>      or more to actually get the
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>      function combinators to work
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>      or do you have to finally wise up
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>           and get smart
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>           and stop fooling around with writing yet
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>                another monad
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>           tutorial(s) just like all the other ranking newbies     and get
> serious
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>                and write a brain pan parser compiler
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>           and become a first class tenderfoot
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>      And now you're much worse off
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>           than before
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>           in the time spent column
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>           and you don't even know it
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>           that's the sad part
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>           because the Maybe she's elegance column is calling   sirens
> calling
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>                clouding your mind with foggy fogged up window pain desires
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>                and you don't even know which end is up anymore
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>                and you want some of that categorical shit
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>                they're having at the big people's table
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> so is it worth it
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> does it work as advertised
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>   or is it just to be deride
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> i wonder
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> But i would like it if a
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>      Smalltalk Arrow
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>      could explain itself
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> So an Arrow is just an Object that contains a 1 input valuable
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>      and a BinaryArrow isA Arrow and contains 2 Arrows
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>      so Arrow>>explainYourself
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>           returns
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>           an Array tree of oneInputValuable source code Strings
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>           which describe how
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>           the Arrow works because otherwise it's just a great big mystery
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>      Arrow
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>           hasA  oneInputValuable <---[ a one input function ]
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>           BinaryArrow isA Arrow
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>                hasA  firstArrow
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>                          secondArrow
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>
> But the
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>      BlockClosure>>into: >>pair: >>binOp: >>at1Do >>at2Do >>swap    etc
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>      and
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>      the
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>      Object>>into: >>pair: >>binOp: >>at1Do >>at2Do >>swap    etc
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> work too
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> maybe quicker
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>      or
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>      ( anArrow asValuable ) <---[ which gets rid of all the explanation bits
> ]
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>                                           <---[ couldn't the Smalltalk
> compiler optimize this
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>                                                    functional as it sits ]
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> Haskell is very big on Immutablility
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>      But in Smalltalk exscpecially in the GUI making everything immutable
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>      just doesn't seem right
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>      because you've got all these Objects which are sitting in this web
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>      and they are taking inputs from god knows everywhere
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>      and broadcasting them back out again
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>      so you have the idea of a web of important Objects
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>      with not so important contents which are coming and going
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>      and recording them all all that and saving them all
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>      for posterity just don't seem right
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>      dependent Objects that are interested can note the changes
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> In Smalltalk when i want an immutable copy of an
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>      ( Object o ) where o might be changing i just get
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>      ( o copy ) or ( o deepCopy ) to take a snapshot of o
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>      but then you have to keep track of when to take a snapshot
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>      it's true
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>
>
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> But Smalltalk can have a
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>      Immutable Class
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>      maybe a subClass of ProtoObject?
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>           to make mixins Object Class complete?
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>      where an ( Immutable m ) is on another ( Object o )
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>      Immutable
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>           hasA object <---[ object = o ]
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>      and m forwards all Messages to o after
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>      making a copy of itself m and o and returning the copy of itself m
> unless
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>      ( ( o aMessage ) ~= o ) in which case
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>      ( ( o aMessage ) asImmutable ) is returned
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>
> then you don't have to keep track of when to copy m
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>      but there could be any amount of copying
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>      going on
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>      so hopefully it's not too much
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> Maybe Object>>immutableCopy might be good which
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>      could be called if it is defined? Maybe not Probably not
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>
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> so hopefully the programmer can tell when
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>      copy is Immutable enough and
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>      when an Immutable wrapper is ok good
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