Hi Nicola,

On Sun, Dec 22, 2019 at 5:27 PM Nicola Mingotti <nmingotti at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Hi David,
>
> After 6 months of Squeak I would say I am a seasoned beginner.
>
> I started with the grey, but in some videos I probably saw it was possible
> to color the windows and promptly I did it. It is definitely clearer, it
> lets you jump faster and doubtless between
> Transcript-Workspace-Browser(s)-Debugger.
>
> Also, with colors, it is easier to distinguish Squeak world from the rest
> of your OS.
>
> Squeak development is shocking for the mind of the experienced programmer,
> in many ways. Colorful windows is one of these way. In unix we have only
> two colors, one is for the "active / with-cursor" window the other is for
> all the inactive windows. More or less is the same for macOS and Windows.
> But Squeak is an OS more than a programming language so I guess it should
> be not bound to these conventions.
>
> It is not matter of urgency. But, I would vote definitely to keep colored
> windows by default.
>

<3


>
> If you are a beginner you will be shocked. Let it be, this is not
> Emacs+Python or Vim+C or AndroidStudio. It is something completely
> different and you should be shocked right at the beginning ;)
>

Forgive me for encouraging you to proselytize on e.g. Quora.  Do you have a
blog?  I'd love to read your impressions and criticisms.


>
> Opinion of total beginners (so, partially also mine) should be weighted
> less, because they do not know what is coming. Like opinion of students,
> let them choose democratically and Calculus would be deleted from any
> curriculum. :P
>
> bye
> nicola
>
>
>
>
> > On Dec 23, 2019, at 1:59 AM, David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com> wrote:
> >
> > I am sure that both of those preferences will remain.
> >
> > I also agree with your view of colorful windows, and I always turn
> > this preference on in my image(s). But I recall that this was discussed
> > for the 5.2 release, and we had feedback from new users who did
> > not like the window coloring. For that reason, we should probably
> > keep the preference turned off in the release image.
> >
> > But I am not a "new user" any more, so if there are any fresh opinions
> > on the subject of colorful windows, please speak up :-)
> >
> > Dave
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 23, 2019 at 12:29:03AM +0100, Nicola Mingotti wrote:
> >>
> >> I am totally 'pro' on reducing the number of preferences.
> >>
> >> But I ask you this:
> >>
> >> [1] Do not remove the preference to keep different windows in different
> colors. That is one of the most useful decision you can make IMHO. Why
> would you color the Browser, Workspace and Debugger in the same way?
> >>
> >> I understand that all grey may seems more a "professional/industrial"
> interface, but I guess we can leave that aim to Pharo and go on on our way.
> >>
> >> [2] "do not remove the possibility of having larger fonts".
> >>
> >> With high High-DPI Squeak would be unusable out of the Box.
> >>
> >> bye
> >> Nicola
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Dec 20, 2019, at 11:18 PM, David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> A preference elimination initiative would be *very* welcome, but
> >>> it is something that we should start working on immediately after
> >>> the 5.3 release.
> >>>
> >>> Preferences are like other bad habits: easy to get into, and
> >>> hard to eliminate. So let's all make a New Year's resolution to
> >>> lose weight, exercise more, eat healthier food, and get rid of
> >>> unnecessary preferences in Squeak.
> >>>
> >>> For the current release, I think that we should limit discussion
> >>> to specific default preference settings that we might want to
> >>> change for the upcoming release.
> >>>
> >>> Dave
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 20, 2019 at 12:57:15PM -0800, tim Rowledge wrote:
> >>>> We have a *lot* of preferences - in my view way too many - and there
> should be at least some discussion about the default values we provide for
> 5.3
> >>>> tl;dr - Too many preferences, too badly organised. reduce, make
> decisions, simplify.
> >>>>
> >>>> I can't imagine I'll hit all of them here but let's try to get
> something done -
> >>>>
> >>>> Arithmetic
> >>>> Should we have these as preferences? How many people understand
> enough about Burnikel-Ziegler recursion splits to make it sensible to
> easily change?
> >>>>
> >>>> Compiler
> >>>> I claim we are long past the point where enabling block argument
> assignments or underscore assignment should be a default. Fix your damn
> code!
> >>>> Are we sticking with the EncoderForV3PlusClosures encoder?
> >>>>
> >>>> Examples
> >>>> These are for the test suite and if possible should be hidden
> >>>>
> >>>> Files
> >>>> The one entry here relates to the encoding of stdio streams so maybe
> this category should be renamed?
> >>>>
> >>>> Graphics
> >>>> Both entries relate to sub-pixel font rendering, so again, rename?
> >>>>
> >>>> Morphic
> >>>> So. Many. Preferences.
> >>>> Surely at least the text edit related ones ought to be removed and
> kept to the 'editing' section?
> >>>>
> >>>> OLPC
> >>>> Really?
> >>>>
> >>>> TextDiff
> >>>> Could be better placed; in Tools?
> >>>>
> >>>> Tools
> >>>> 'Use unified message labels' What does this do? Is it worth allowing
> a choice for this sort of thing?
> >>>>
> >>>> browsing
> >>>> Aargh! More options than 31 flavour ice-cream stores! How many are
> actually of value?
> >>>> 'ignore style if only bold'?
> >>>> 'menu button in tool pane' - no actual senders, for example
> >>>>
> >>>> colors
> >>>> 'Use the new color picker' - is the new color pick not our pick for
> picking colors? If it still isn't the sensible choice more than 10 years
> later, maybe we should dump it completely.
> >>>>
> >>>> fileout
> >>>> are there ever good reasons to not have 24 hr timestamps? For not
> checking for slips?
> >>>>
> >>>> general
> >>>> Wow, still more flavours of ice-cream.
> >>>> 'Read only mode' - no senders. It's so old there is no timestamp.
> >>>> 'Use locale' is there any reason to ever not use it?
> >>>>
> >>>> .... and my brain melted at this point.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> tim
> >>>> --
> >>>> tim Rowledge; tim at rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> >>>> Useful random insult:- Couldn't pour water out of a boot with
> instructions on the heel.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
>
>
>

-- 
_,,,^..^,,,_
best, Eliot
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