With these modest requirements, David, please try the port and open issues
for anything that bugs you about it.


Am Fr., 15. Feb. 2019, 02:14 hat David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com>
geschrieben:

> Hi Torsten,
>
> Thank you very much for asking about this, and thanks to Nicolas for the
> explanations.
>
> As a package maintainer (OSProcess and others), I want to be able to
> provide continued support for Pharo users, and it would probably be helpful
> if I could read and write to Tonel as an external format. I am also
> interested
> in being able to browse and read the projects (many of them quite
> excellent)
> that are being developed in Pharo from my Squeak image.
>
> I am a big fan of git, but I do not care about integrating it with the
> image (Squeak/Pharo) because I prefer using the in-image tools in Squeak,
> and when I do use git, I prefer to use git tools directly.
>
> I am not well informed about this topic, but overall I would say that being
> able to read and write Tonel format from Squeak would be very helpful, and
> I would probably not care very much about version control integration.
>
> Thanks again for asking,
>
> Dave
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:15:23PM +0100, Nicolas Cellier wrote:
> > I think that we should at least support the input/output of tonel
> packages
> > for inter-operability.
> > Since the git repositories are metadataless, we can't do much more
> without
> > a lot of work.
> >
> > Since tonel has no support for timestamps, it looses authorship (it is
> > replaced by committer-ship).
> > If we don't want to loose authorship, then we need to port whole history
> to
> > git with known initials <-> git(hub) account database.
> > This is currently working for single package with complex graph (to
> > filetree format, but could work for Tonel too).
> > If you want to commit several MC packages in same git repository, then
> it's
> > currently impossible to support complex history.
> > There is generally no information that enables inter-MC-package
> > synchronization (unless some sort of MCConfigurationMap is used, which at
> > least gives a few sync point in history...).
> >
> > If we want to perform essential operations like commit/pull/merge or
> access
> > essential information as history/revisions/diffs then we have to
> > - either reproduce the very hard work that began in Pharo: program a git
> > client inside the image,
> > - or loose inside image tools.
> >
> > Squeak MC tools are much more productive than Pharo MC tools:
> > - they scale well even for massive changes (i did check with auto
> generated
> > Smallapack interface)
> > - they support cherry-picking: you see and control what you commit
> > - they are quasi bugfree
> > - the magma backend provides a few additional features (revisions...)
> > Pharo team has produced huge effort for the github switch, but it does
> not
> > go without pain. Despite the importance of being visible on github, and
> > profit by state of the art web collaborating tools, i don't see Squeak
> able
> > to take this major turn in near future.
> >
> > If we want to have mix development with packages maintained both in a MC
> > repository and a git metadataless repository,
> > then we have the problem of finding a common ancestor.
> > I think that this could be doable with some conventions (like storing the
> > .last_known_mc_ancestor in a file)
> > Of course, it's re-introduction of metadata, but the minimal possible,
> and
> > leads to easy to resolve conflicts (that can be automated)...
> >
> > The last grief I have with Tonel is that it is not syntax agnostic.
> > Since we have a language where we can define compilerClass/parserClass,
> > that's unfortunate (The application i developed in the 90's did use such
> > important feature, it's not just theoretical)
> > It could have been language agnostic with very little effort (remember
> the
> > discussion on Pharo-dev, just using an arbitrary number of [[[   ]]] as
> > method body separators would suffice)
> > For most packages, that will not be a problem though.
> >
> >
> > Le jeu. 14 f??vr. 2019 ?? 15:17, Torsten Bergmann <astares at gmx.de> a
> ??crit :
> >
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > as some of you might already know "Tonel" is a file-per-class format
> for
> > > monticello repositories [1].
> > >
> > > In Pharo land many projects are already converted to it - as regular
> "file
> > > tree" solution faces issues
> > > with git handling due to very long file names / deep file hierarchy
> (often
> > > leading to trouble on Windows).
> > >
> > > Dales's Rowan (a new project/package manager for Smalltalk) supports
> > > FileTree and also Tonel
> > > repositories [2]. There is also a tool to convert from STORE
> (VisualWorks
> > > Source-Code Versioning System)
> > > to Tonel format [3].
> > >
> > > So I wonder about adoption of Tonel in Squeak land.
> > >
> > > Any status/comments?
> > >
> > > Thx
> > > T.
> > >
> > > [1] https://github.com/pharo-vcs/tonel
> > > [2] https://github.com/GemTalk/Rowan
> > > [3]
> > >
> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/01/20/ann-sett-store-export-to-tonel-tools-for-pharo6-1/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>
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