On Fri, Feb 15, 2019 at 8:58 AM Jakob Reschke <forums.jakob at resfarm.de>
wrote:

> With these modest requirements, David, please try the port and open issues
> for anything that bugs you about it.
>
>
> Am Fr., 15. Feb. 2019, 02:14 hat David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com>
> geschrieben:
>
>> Hi Torsten,
>>
>> Thank you very much for asking about this, and thanks to Nicolas for the
>> explanations.
>>
>> As a package maintainer (OSProcess and others), I want to be able to
>> provide continued support for Pharo users, and it would probably be
>> helpful
>> if I could read and write to Tonel as an external format. I am also
>> interested
>> in being able to browse and read the projects (many of them quite
>> excellent)
>> that are being developed in Pharo from my Squeak image.
>>
>> I am a big fan of git, but I do not care about integrating it with the
>> image (Squeak/Pharo) because I prefer using the in-image tools in Squeak,
>> and when I do use git, I prefer to use git tools directly.
>>
>
I believe Jakob's Git integration (see below) can also be controlled from
within a workspace.


>
>> I am not well informed about this topic, but overall I would say that
>> being
>> able to read and write Tonel format from Squeak would be very helpful, and
>> I would probably not care very much about version control integration.
>>
>> Thanks again for asking,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 14, 2019 at 11:15:23PM +0100, Nicolas Cellier wrote:
>> > I think that we should at least support the input/output of tonel
>> packages
>> > for inter-operability.
>> > Since the git repositories are metadataless, we can't do much more
>> without
>> > a lot of work.
>> >
>> > Since tonel has no support for timestamps, it looses authorship (it is
>> > replaced by committer-ship).
>> > If we don't want to loose authorship, then we need to port whole
>> history to
>> > git with known initials <-> git(hub) account database.
>> > This is currently working for single package with complex graph (to
>> > filetree format, but could work for Tonel too).
>> > If you want to commit several MC packages in same git repository, then
>> it's
>> > currently impossible to support complex history.
>> > There is generally no information that enables inter-MC-package
>> > synchronization (unless some sort of MCConfigurationMap is used, which
>> at
>> > least gives a few sync point in history...).
>>
>
Agreed. Too bad Tonel has become the default format in Pharo already. If we
want to support it, we also have to live with it's flaws...


> >
>> > If we want to perform essential operations like commit/pull/merge or
>> access
>> > essential information as history/revisions/diffs then we have to
>> > - either reproduce the very hard work that began in Pharo: program a git
>> > client inside the image,
>> > - or loose inside image tools.
>> >
>> > Squeak MC tools are much more productive than Pharo MC tools:
>> > - they scale well even for massive changes (i did check with auto
>> generated
>> > Smallapack interface)
>> > - they support cherry-picking: you see and control what you commit
>> > - they are quasi bugfree
>> > - the magma backend provides a few additional features (revisions...)
>> > Pharo team has produced huge effort for the github switch, but it does
>> not
>> > go without pain. Despite the importance of being visible on github, and
>> > profit by state of the art web collaborating tools, i don't see Squeak
>> able
>> > to take this major turn in near future.
>>
>
Squeak's MC tools are great and I also thought Squeak can't support Git any
time soon. It turns out Jakob has already done most of the heavy lifting as
he worked on a Smalltalk implementation of Git. It even comes with a
Sourcetree-like UI which supports the most important operations already. In
case you haven't seen it, you can install it via "Do" > "Installer
installGitInfrastructure" (Squeak-5.2 or later). You can then find it's UI
under "Apps" > "Git Browser". Please file bugs at [1]. Unfortunately, the
bus factor of this integration is still quite low, but I'd like to see more
people working on it.

Fabio

[1] https://github.com/hpi-swa/Squot/issues


> >
>> > If we want to have mix development with packages maintained both in a MC
>> > repository and a git metadataless repository,
>> > then we have the problem of finding a common ancestor.
>> > I think that this could be doable with some conventions (like storing
>> the
>> > .last_known_mc_ancestor in a file)
>> > Of course, it's re-introduction of metadata, but the minimal possible,
>> and
>> > leads to easy to resolve conflicts (that can be automated)...
>> >
>> > The last grief I have with Tonel is that it is not syntax agnostic.
>> > Since we have a language where we can define compilerClass/parserClass,
>> > that's unfortunate (The application i developed in the 90's did use such
>> > important feature, it's not just theoretical)
>> > It could have been language agnostic with very little effort (remember
>> the
>> > discussion on Pharo-dev, just using an arbitrary number of [[[   ]]] as
>> > method body separators would suffice)
>> > For most packages, that will not be a problem though.
>> >
>> >
>> > Le jeu. 14 f??vr. 2019 ?? 15:17, Torsten Bergmann <astares at gmx.de> a
>> ??crit :
>> >
>> > > Hi,
>> > >
>> > > as some of you might already know "Tonel" is a file-per-class format
>> for
>> > > monticello repositories [1].
>> > >
>> > > In Pharo land many projects are already converted to it - as regular
>> "file
>> > > tree" solution faces issues
>> > > with git handling due to very long file names / deep file hierarchy
>> (often
>> > > leading to trouble on Windows).
>> > >
>> > > Dales's Rowan (a new project/package manager for Smalltalk) supports
>> > > FileTree and also Tonel
>> > > repositories [2]. There is also a tool to convert from STORE
>> (VisualWorks
>> > > Source-Code Versioning System)
>> > > to Tonel format [3].
>> > >
>> > > So I wonder about adoption of Tonel in Squeak land.
>> > >
>> > > Any status/comments?
>> > >
>> > > Thx
>> > > T.
>> > >
>> > > [1] https://github.com/pharo-vcs/tonel
>> > > [2] https://github.com/GemTalk/Rowan
>> > > [3]
>> > >
>> https://pharoweekly.wordpress.com/2019/01/20/ann-sett-store-export-to-tonel-tools-for-pharo6-1/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
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