[squeak-dev] We need to talk about graphics

karl ramberg karlramberg at gmail.com
Fri Jul 3 19:12:06 UTC 2020

I have tried to use the OpenGL from Squeak and found it very opaque and
hard to use.
Both because the Squeak side is not very well documented and because OpenGL
is hard  itself.

I have also looked briefly at Dolphin Smalltalk which have quite fast
graphics on Windows but
the way you get it to work is quite elaborate and convoluted.

I agree with what Stephane Rollandin wrote; keep BitBlt for simplicity and
work on better way to
access whatever we choose to use as a fast backend.


On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 5:11 PM Peter Crowther <peter at ozzard.org> wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Jul 2020 at 09:22, karl ramberg <karlramberg at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Faster, smoother graphics would be really good.
>> At the same time I like access to everything within the image.
>> If you could only choose one of these, which would you choose? "Access to
> everything within the image" is a really large anchor to attach to a
> graphics subsystem these days.  We have a single-threaded Smalltalk that
> has deep assumptions about a single memory space and a single rectangular
> display area of consistent properties wired in over forty years of
> development.  Meanwhile, modern graphics subsystems are *very* heavily
> parallel, use custom hardware, and you try to offload everything you can to
> the coprocessor because you don't want it even in your memory space.
> If we want a teaching and learning system that can be understood and
> modified by a normal programmer, we keep everything in the image and accept
> limited facilities and slowness.  If we want something that makes use of
> all of the varied and wonderful capabilities of modern graphics hardware
> then a) what's the smallest subset we'll accept (to make it easy to port
> Squeak to new platforms), b) what knowledge do we require of anyone who
> wishes to investigate the graphics subsystem?
> Cheers,
> - Peter
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