> On 04.06.2020, at 16:11, David T. Lewis <lewis at mail.msen.com> wrote:
> 
> I have added it to my image and I find it to be helpful. It gives a nice
> indication of object identity, and it does not get in the way of anything
> that I do.

I'm all in for having it in the inspector/explorer info, but not the default #printOn:
"an Object" dates back to the original st-80, iirc, lets retain it the way it is :)

	-tobias

> 
> Thanks,
> Dave
> 
> On Thu, Jun 04, 2020 at 07:32:52AM +0200, Trygve Reenskaug wrote:
>> Quite.?? My small /printOn:/ goodie is designed to permeate the whole 
>> image. It will not be part of a release image; people who like it add it 
>> to their image; others don't have to see it.
>> 
>> On 2020.06.03 21:56, Chris Muller wrote:
>>> Hi Marcel,
>>> 
>>> It seems there are a couple??of different dimensions to consider.?? You 
>>> +1'd the idea of sending #asOop from #printOn:.?? I'm definitely a -1 
>>> on that, because it would force everywhere that doesn't want id to 
>>> override printOn:, and they wouldn't even be able to call "super"!?? 
>>> And even if they DO want id printing, overriding #asOop means they're 
>>> forced to??mix concatenation with streaming, which isn't a good idea.?? 
>>> To stay with streaming, you would at least want a,#printOopOn:, but 
>>> that name is too domain-specific.?? (#asOop is already a common 
>>> selector in persistence frameworks, I think).
>>> 
>>> A generic, supplementary printing method that works on a Stream avoids 
>>> those issues, and can be either a no-op in Object, OR, 
>>> Object>>#printOn: could check if it #respondsTo: it, allowing the 
>>> supplementary??method to be provided on Object by external frameworks 
>>> without dirtying the Kernel package.
>>> 
>>> Over the years, I've found having a separate, String-based "id" 
>>> representation (that is not always it's oop / oid), and not any of its 
>>> other attributes of its standard #printString, to be a useful 
>>> extrusion of behavior for disparate domain hierarchies to inherit 
>>> rather than each implement their own.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> ?? Chris
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 3:24 AM Marcel Taeumel <marcel.taeumel at hpi.de 
>>> <mailto:marcel.taeumel at hpi.de>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>   Hi Chris.
>>> 
>>>> Seeing just their identifications removes a level of formality
>>>   that seems to foster a better UI "connection" to the objects.
>>> 
>>>   Domain-specific objects can provide a good-enough identification
>>>   in their #printOn: specialization. Maybe the class name is part of
>>>   it. Maybe not. If you develop a database, for example, you surely
>>>   have another notion of identity. Meaning, other than Object >>
>>>   #identityhash or #oop. That other notion of (compact) identity
>>>   should then be part of an object's print-string that is part of
>>>   the database.
>>> 
>>>   Yet, nothing one can foresee, when thinking about Object >>
>>>   #printOn:. There, you have only the meta-object protocol at hand:
>>>   class name, identity hash, maybe ref counter? :-D Having a new
>>>   subclass of Object, what should that #printOn: look like
>>>   out-of-the-box? The class name is fine. So you can actually see
>>>   that your new class' instances are populating the world. Next step
>>>   should be to implement a custom #printOn: in that new class.
>>> 
>>>   Best,
>>>   Marcel
>>>> 
>>>>   Am 03.06.2020 05:16:31 schrieb Chris Muller <asqueaker at gmail.com
>>>>   <mailto:asqueaker at gmail.com>>:
>>>> 
>>>>   Hi Trygve,
>>>> 
>>>>   Of all the attributes that objects print, I find the "type"
>>>>   (class) to be one of the least interesting.?? It's usually already
>>>>   obvious in its contextual usage. Indeed, it is the "identity"
>>>>   that I, too, am??interested in seeing printed.?? My solution since
>>>>   2006 has been an override of??#printOn: that adds a one-line
>>>>   dispatch to #printIdentificationOn:.?? I then take care in my
>>>>   #printIdentificationOn: implementations to keep the printing as
>>>>   terse as it can be, and sans any line endings,??to serve this
>>>>   seemingly recurring use-case I have of wanting a "short version"
>>>>   of an object's string.?? For example,??when printing the elements
>>>>   of a collection.?? Having entire domain hierarchies exclude the
>>>>   type entirely from their printString's has been a fantastic
>>>>   experience. Seeing just their identifications removes a level of
>>>>   formality that seems to foster a better UI "connection" to the
>>>>   objects.
>>>> 
>>>>   Regards,
>>>>   ?? Chris
>>>> 
>>>>   On Tue, Jun 2, 2020 at 7:10 AM Trygve Reenskaug
>>>>   <trygver at ifi.uio.no <mailto:trygver at ifi.uio.no>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>       I find it frustrating to open 3 inspectors on different
>>>>       objects, all of them titled 'aString' (or whatever),
>>>>       IMO, it is much better to open them on the 3 objects: [1234]
>>>>       aString, [3456] a String, [4567 a String.
>>>>       The numbers in square brackets stand for the objects /oop/,
>>>>       actually its /identityHash/. They can be a 7-digit numbers;
>>>>       much too long for my short-time memory to hold many of them.
>>>>       I therefore truncate the number to 4 digits, accepting that I
>>>>       may, in rare cases, get 2 objects with the same identifier.
>>>> 
>>>>       I'm running 'Squeak5.3'.
>>>> 
>>>>           *Object>>printOn: aStream*
>>>>           ?????????????? "Append to the argument, aStream, a sequence of
>>>>           characters that identifies the receiver."
>>>>           ?????????????? " The previous version identified the class, 
>>>>           not
>>>>           the instance "
>>>>           ?????????????? " This new version identifies the instance with
>>>>           its oop. "
>>>>           ?????????????? " I arbitrarily truncate the oop to 4 digits to
>>>>           simplify reading. "
>>>> 
>>>>           ?????????????? | title |
>>>>           ?????????????? title := self class name.
>>>>           ?????????????? aStream
>>>>           ?????????????????????? nextPutAll: '[' , (self asOop 
>>>>           printString
>>>>           truncateTo: 4) , ']' ;
>>>>           ?????????????????????? nextPutAll: (title first isVowel 
>>>>           ifTrue: ['an
>>>>           '] ifFalse: ['a ']);
>>>>           ?????????????????????? nextPutAll: title
>>>> 
>>>>       Enjoy
>>>>       --Trygve
>>>>       -- 
>>>> 
>>>>       /The essence of object orientation is that objects
>>>>       collaborateto achieve a goal. /
>>>>       Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver at ifi.uio.no
>>>>       <mailto:%20trygver at ifi.uio.no>
>>>>       Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
>>>>       N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info
>>>>       Norway??????????????????????????????????????????Tel: (+47) 468 58 
>>>>       625
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> /The essence of object orientation is that objects collaborateto achieve 
>> a goal. /
>> Trygve Reenskaug mailto: trygver at ifi.uio.no <mailto:%20trygver at ifi.uio.no>
>> Morgedalsvn. 5A http://folk.uio.no/trygver/
>> N-0378 Oslo http://fullOO.info
>> Norway??????????????????????????????????????????Tel: (+47) 468 58 625