[squeak-dev] The Trunk: Morphic-mt.1852.mcz

Marcel Taeumel marcel.taeumel at hpi.de
Thu Jan 27 10:20:22 UTC 2022


Hi Jaromir --

> I test various snippets in the Workspace and put down expectations, notes, results etc, to be copied to some document later.

That's exactly what it's for! Very good scenario. Thanks.

Best,
Marcel
Am 27.01.2022 10:25:07 schrieb mail at jaromir.net <mail at jaromir.net>:
Hi tim, Chris, all,

> > On 2022-01-26, at 3:27 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
> >
> > I believe there's a reason *Workspaces* shouldn't be able to save --
> > because if you're doing so much work that it should be saved, then it should be put into a method instead.
>
> I'd argue that there are bunches of doit-code/notes that you want to have safe and not in a method, and the right way to do that is with a fileeditor opened on the file. (tim)
>

Yes, that's exactly right. Reading Chris's reply I started to suspect I'm using the Workspace for what it wasn't made for: I test various snippets in the Workspace and put down expectations, notes, results etc, to be copied to some document later. Checking standard menus I can't see any text editor - have I missed something important here? (I learn by myself so the clues in the system are crucial for me)

> > I just realized being able to save Workspaces opens this can of worms of needing a stale-detection system in any case -- otherwise users will face this "doubt" every single time they launch the image. (Chris)

Yes, true, I know this feeling very well :) That's why I like Marcel's idea to append the accepted contents to the saved file rather than overwrite; it's a backup anyway so when a disaster (or doubt) strikes one can check the backups.

thanks,
best,
~~~
^[^ Jaromir

Sent from Squeak Inbox Talk

On 2022-01-26T15:49:44-08:00, tim at rowledge.org wrote:

> I almost agree -
>
> > On 2022-01-26, at 3:27 PM, Chris Muller wrote:
> >
> > I believe there's a reason *Workspaces* shouldn't be able to save --
> > because if you're doing so much work that it should be saved, then it
> > should be put into a method instead.
>
> I'd argue that there are bunches of doit-code/notes that you want to have safe and not in a method, and the right way to do that is with a fileeditor opened on the file.
>
> I just recently made the FileList open a "Workspace with file saving ability" instead of a very hinky mashup of FileList parts, so at least one part is a smidge cleaner. What I'd urge is making it very clear that a window open on a backing file can save & re-load to/from that file, and that a not-backedup one cannot. And it's really not a difficult thing to arrange for a Workspace to turn into a FileEditor if/when a user chooses to ask for it. Nor would it be a terrible thing to have the option to choose which you get as a default.
>
> But Chris has also just raised another important point about staleness and multiple-source editing of the workspace files. Beating that would require some'interesting' work to do constant auto-saving with the file having a full tagged edit history in the vein of the Apple approach to Pages/Numbers/Keynote files. It's all a bit much for a simple text view with a good relationship with the compiler...
>
> tim
> --
> tim Rowledge; tim at rowledge.org; http://www.rowledge.org/tim
> Fractured Idiom:- APRES MOE LE DELUGE - Larry and Curly get wet
>
>

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