[UI] What's next?

[Bill Schwab]

Brad,

Good point about the task bar - there are other solutions to that
problem, but none as slick.

More generally, if you want to start with specifications, that is fine;
count me in.  I suspect they will be completely ignored, just as
Squeak's deficiencies have been ignored.  Whether by preferences or
perhaps themed feel, we might have a chance to break through the "please
don't break our toy" resistance by producing something nice enough that
there will be some backlash against any who attempt to blackball it. 
For those who genuinely prefer the motif behavior, we should offer it
from the beginning, but we should also provide a way to meet the demands
of end users who have learned that they can freely "shove the mouse out
of the way."

In short, however we get there, I think our ultimate product should be
working code with enough appeal (and I think Gary has the basics to make
it work) to get the average Squeaker (if there is such a person) to want
it.

Bill



Wilhelm K. Schwab, Ph.D.
University of Florida
Department of Anesthesiology
PO Box 100254
Gainesville, FL 32610-0254

Email: bschwab at anest.ufl.edu
Tel: (352) 846-1285
FAX: (352) 392-7029

>>> bradallenfuller at yahoo.com 09/01/07 5:37 PM >>>
----- Original Message ----
From: Bill Schwab <BSchwab at anest.ufl.edu>
To: ui at lists.squeakfoundation.org
Sent: Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:48:34 AM
Subject: [UI] What's next?

> Do any of you have any regrets about installing Gary's packages?
> I am tempted to load them into my working 3.9 image.  
> Any reports of bad experience would be appreciated.

I haven't found a problem except the one I mentioned to Gary, and it
must have been my fault, so no need to elaborate on my errs ;-)


> Without any implied lack of gratitude, the changes are thus far simply
> eye candy.  

perhaps, with the excepttion of the taskbar at the bottom, which may be
helpful to some for auto-arranging the desktop. 

Gary's work is much appreciated and I can't wait until he finishes it!

>  As impressive and helpful as the changes are, I will stick to my
long-standing assertion
that Squeak's real GUI problems are feel related.

I don't agree that it's exclusively feel related. There are many "look"
issues as well. I contend that "look and feel" go hand-in-hand and maybe
we should approach it this way?

>  Does this group want to tackle that problem?

YES!

>  How?  

I still push the idea that we need guidelines first. But, i wanted to
hear from more on this discussion topic before I said anything else
(plus, I've been swamped too!)

> Do we want to adopt Gary's work as a foundation?

Foundation for what? 


> I am tempted to vote in the affirmative on the latter, and
> hope that we will go further by taming the mouse-over activation and
> focus madness. 

This could be easily remedied by first agreeing upon a keyboard focus
rule(s) and then implementing the rule into the standard image (maybe
for 3.10?.) With the rule in place, software authors will at least know
what the rest of the community believes to be best practice. They can
violate it if they want in their own apps, but at least it's stated.

Maybe this could be our first project. 


> Preferences are fine: I would not want to force
> convention on others any more than I want to subject my users to (what
> would appear to them as) random behavior as they move the mouse.

Preferences settings has been a long standing feature in Squeak.
Frankly, I don't know how good it is. I like it, but there are some good
arguments against this (see Raskin.)

> Gary's work is yet another illustration that native widgets are not
> necessary to achieve any particular look, and I am confident we can
> illustrate the same re feel. 

Sorry, I always get confused on what "native" means. Does it mean native
to the hosting OS, or native to Squeak?  Maybe we should not use the
word "native" and use "Host" or "OS" and "Squeak": e.g.: OS-widgets,
Host-widgets; Squeak-widgets, Host-derived widgets -- ???

To comment on your comment, I believe that Squeak-derived widgets forces
easy portability between hosts. 

brad




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