[Vm-dev] Compiling squeak-vm for Linux 64bit

[Bert Freudenberg]

On 17.03.2009, at 11:28, José L. Redrejo Rodríguez wrote:

> El mar, 17-03-2009 a las 10:32 +0100, Bert Freudenberg escribió:
>>
>> That is interesting news. I was not aware anybody is seriously  
>> wanting
>> to use Etoys on 64 bits. Besides, I though that amd64 is capable of
>> running 64 and 32 bit software side-by-side just fine so there is no
>> urgent need to clean up the VM (although I'm of course thankful to
>> David who is hacking away on this). As far as I know it's not
>> "emulation" at all, so why do you say it runs "poorly"?
> Not, it's not emulation, and running 32 bits applications in a 64 bits
> environment works, it's what I'm doing, but the perfomance is worse,

Really? How did you measure that?

> and
> the integration with the user desktop with all the applications (and  
> the
> desktop itself) running in 64 bits has aesthetical issues. And you  
> know,
> for end users, the way an application looks uses to be important.

Huh? How does Etoys in 64 bits look different from 32 bits?

> So, for my end users, I've workarounded most of the problems (appart
> from the browser plugin that segfaults in 32 bits whenever you close  
> the
> tab where it's running), but the problems are still there,

Yes, I have not worked on the plugin in a while. Sorry. The plugin is  
not used in Sugar, so I did not pay much attention to it. When I find  
some spare time I will look into it. Patches welcome of course, as  
well as links to detailed bug reports.

> and everyday
> there are more people trying to use amd64 and don't want (or don't  
> know)
> to hack the applications to make them work. And there are some  
> projects
> (as the sugar project in Debian, or Debian Edu) that want to use  
> Squeak
> and are stalled because of the 64 bits issues.

Seriously, that's the first time I hear that 64 bits issues are  
stalling anything related to Etoys.

> I don't know if that's
> urgent for the Squeak community, but it's something that has to be  
> known
> to decide if it is important or not. That's why I begun my  
> intervention
> in this thread answering to David that the 64-bits are needed not only
> for hobbyists, but for many more people.


Well, thanks for speaking up. You have to distinguish between the  
squeak.org community and the Etoys community. Both talk about "Squeak"  
but mean entirely different things. Most in the squeak.org community  
do not think of Squeak as a product with users, but rather as a tool  
they only use themselves. E.g., there is even resistance to creating a  
squeak-users mailing list aimed at Smalltalk developers who just want  
to use Squeak for developing :/

This is different for the Etoys community. They see "Squeak Etoys" is  
an educational tool that is used by teachers, parents, and children.  
The new "Squeakland Foundation" was created to support that community.  
They will have an open ear to your concerns.

The VM guys here basically churn away on keeping up the illusion that  
Squeak simply works ;)

- Bert -