siguctua at gmail.com
Thu May 7 23:56:30 UTC 2009
2009/5/8 Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>:
> On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:13 PM, Jecel Assumpcao Jr <jecel at merlintec.com> wrote:
>> Bert Freudenberg wrote:
>> > Yes. Keep 31-bit SmallIntegers, provide e.g. 24-bit immediate characters.
>> > Andreas wrote a thorough sketch of this scheme in 2006.
>> I would like to see this scheme get adopted. My own suggestion for the
>> spare encoding (spare if the GC is changed, that is) was for unboxed 30
>> bit floats, but that seems to be unpopular and I guess I can live with
>> float arrays instead.
>> Certainly immediate charaters are very important as we move away from
>> ASCII, and I liked Andreas' suggestions of colors and short points as
>> well. But I would be particularly interested in having an immediate
>> encoding for symbols. You already have a global table from converting
>> to/from strings, so I see no need to store anything in the symbols
>> themselves. Having a trivial way to know that an object is a symbol
>> without chasing a class pointer could make serializing/restoring objects
>> a little faster.
> This brings up an important point, which is what immediates are good for and what they're not (IMO). They are good for computation, but not without incurring other costs for compactness.
> Yes one can, especially in a 64-bit VM, imagine e.g. a 7 character immediate Symbol, but it won't save you that much because by definition the symbols that become immediate are the smallest, and it will have additional costs, another class in the image, different code for creating immediate symbols from strings, complications in all string comparison code (e.g. the string comparison primitives) to cope with immediate symbols. So computationally immediate symbols are slower and add complication.
> Compare that to e.g. 61-bit immediate floats in a 64-bit VM where the cost (an additional class in the image and a set of primitives) is repaid by substantially faster float arithmetic.
> IMO, in general use immedates for computational objects where computation is performed on the immediate bit pattern and instantiation rates are high. This applies to integers characters and floats. Do not use them for atoms such as nil, false true, the symbols, etc. These are perfectly fine as ordinary objects. Adding them as immediates complicates (bloats and slows down) the immediate/non-immediate test that is the highest dynamic frequency operation in the VM (e.g. one per send), accessing the class etc.
> Short points and compact colours might make sense in a very graphical environment, but the cost of the blits would I think far outweigh the cost of the point & colour manipulation so the advantages would get lost in the noise.
> So for me I'm only interested in SmallInteger, SmallFloat & Character, and keeping the immediate test as lean as possible.
> One thing I find difficult with Andreas' proposal is the use of 31-bit SmallIntegers instead of 30-bit SmallIntegers because it complicates the immediate test. One can't simply use oop bitAnd: 3 to determine the tag value because both 2r01 and 2r11 are SmallIntegers; instead one has to use (oop bitAnd: 1) ifTrue:  ifFalse: [oop bitAnd: 3].
> The isImmediate test is fine:
> isImmediate: oop ^(oop bitAnd: 3) ~= 0
> or, if 0 is being used as the SmallInteger tag (a la V8), e.g.
> isImmediate: oop ^(oop bitAnd: 3) ~= 3
> bit the "does this oop have the immediate pattern foo?" test is slow and this is the test that is in in-line caches on every send:
> oop: oop hasTag: pattern
> | tagAndLSB |
> tagAndLSB := oop bitAnd: 3.
> ^pattern = 2 ifTrue: [tagAndLSB = 2] ifFalse: [(tagAndLSB bitAnd: 1) ~= 0]
> or some such. Its much nicer if it is just
> oop: oop hasTag: pattern ^pattern = (oop bitAnd: 3)
> I'm told that having 31-bit and opposed to 30-bit SmallIntegers is a bug advantage but I remain to be convinced; VW has always had 30-bit SmallIntegers and seems none the worse for it.
Eliot, i encourage you to write the Cog in such way, that it would be
very easy to replace/change the tagging rules.
Then, you can bench the performance and choose best alternative.
>> -- Jecel
Igor Stasenko AKA sig.
More information about the Vm-dev