[Vm-dev] Re: [Pharo-project] direct object manipulation

Eliot Miranda eliot.miranda at gmail.com
Fri Mar 30 20:43:05 UTC 2012

On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr
> wrote:

> On Mar 30, 2012, at 9:50 PM, phil at highoctane.be wrote:
> > This is a chicken and egg problem.
> > And a popularity contest game as well.
> >
> > Without one click, you'll piss people off fast and they'll go look
> elsewhere. Then you loose traction and that's bad.
> >
> > If I didn't had one click, I wouldn't have been learning as fast as I've
> been.
> I agree with you.
> > Now I do have all pieces from different locations (even wanting to build
> the VM on my own).
> >
> > For contrast, look at another community I am part of: Tiki Wiki CMS
> Groupware. The system is topping SourceForge number of downloads,
> committers, and is a general success for intranets in companies.
> >
> > Of course, the paradigm isn't pure at all, but easy enough to have a lot
> of people contributing good stuff.
> >
> > We are at version 9 and I don't know any other package that is as
> feature rich when it comes to the web.
> > We are talking more than a million lines of code here.
> > Now, we are moving further than one click: hosting providers provide a
> full VM with everything installed for the stack.
> >
> > As of software developers, I do view 4 categories:
> >
> > - constructivists using established abstractions and not requiring
> further exposure to inner workings of the system. They deliver business
> value for common problems.
> > - bridges understanding how the system works inside and are able to
> convey usage patterns to the constructivists. They also feed back real
> world usage problems to the next kind so that the system stays useful and
> not pie in the skyish.
> > - abstractionists: able to come up with a powerful set of abstractions
> to solve a given problem in a general manner. Framework makers are here
> > - technology makers: create core tech. Like a Cog-VM thing, CUDA, ..
> >
> > Try to pair types by jumping one strata and you are asking for trouble.
> >
> > Except for rare seasoned developers that are master of their craft and
> are able to display behavioral flexibility.
> > But these are a rare breed and you won't get them for a long time anyway
> as these are seekers.
> I want a good installer for each platform :)

For newspeak there is a native installer for Mac OS and Windows.  See
 These allow one to install whatever one specifies using a native
installer.  The WIndows code is a little hairy and the Mac OS code is very
simple.  So if you consider a native installer a good introductory choice
(it doesn't have to be the only one) then take a look.  I can help with
anyone trying to tailor to the WIndows installer.

> And I want to let a chance to people to decide when they have to deal with
> low level.
> Pushing shit on their faces as a welcome message is not what we want.
> Now alex shipping cairo lib may be not be the best to do. It tooks some
> time to compile on my machine
> and it means some work to build the right libr for each sub platforms: 32,
> 64…..
> Now you can also use VW. :) For me this is simply no way. ;)
> Stef

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