[Vm-dev] Re: [Pharo-dev] Smalltalk in a C World

[Eliot Miranda]

On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Eliot Miranda <eliot.miranda at gmail.com>wrote:

>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 1:45 PM, phil at highoctane.be <phil at highoctane.be>wrote:
>
>>
>> Now, moving forward, what would be required to have an interpreter
>> embedded in C, even if this means having another image with a special API
>> and the whole enchilada?
>>
>> At least a working prototype.
>>
>> I have looked at the "Porting the VM" document and the part about
>> headless (which is now done differently).
>>
>> What comes to my mind is to define a specific neutral C platform that
>> would be able to execute basic bytecode.
>>
>> From videos of Ben, I saw SystemTracer (or SystemTracer2) recreating a
>> very tiny image making some noise to prove it was working.
>>
>> Could it be possible to target this kind of tiny image running inside a C
>> program through a base interpreter? This would avoid having to deal with
>> the whole primitives and plugins at the beginning.
>>
>
> r u purposely ignoring me?
>

and I'm just asking.  i'm not angry or anything.  but i'm not going to
waste my time answering your questions if you're uninterested in what i
have to say.


>
>
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:07 PM, Stéphane Ducasse <
>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The main issue is that it is complicated to embed the VM in C code.
>>> That's due to how the VM is done.
>>>
>>> Compared to TCL, where you can easily embed the interpreter in a C
>>> program, this is a problem. http://wiki.tcl.tk/3474
>>>
>>> Where you can embed the interpreter in a C program, you can do whatever
>>> integration you want.
>>>
>>> Now, with NativeBoost, we can call C. The next challenge would be to be
>>> able to call Pharo from C by embedding the interpreter.
>>>
>>> I am curious to  see what you guys think about this.
>>>
>>>
>>> It is one of my dream!
>>> Now I'm too bad in C to make this dream comes true. Sadly. But I would
>>> love to have Pharo being able to
>>> be embedded in C.
>>>
>>>
>>> I would love to see things like mod_pharo (as there is mod_php,
>>> mod_perl, mod_tcl...) in Apache.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>> Philippe Back
>>> Dramatic Performance Improvements
>>> Mob: +32(0) 478 650 140 | Fax: +32 (0) 70 408 027
>>> Mail:phil at highoctane.be | Web: http://philippeback.eu
>>> Blog: http://philippeback.be | Twitter: @philippeback
>>> Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/user/philippeback/videos
>>>
>>> High Octane SPRL
>>> rue cour Boisacq 101 | 1301 Bierges | Belgium
>>>
>>> Pharo Consortium Member - http://consortium.pharo.org/
>>> Featured on the Software Process and Measurement Cast -
>>> http://spamcast.libsyn.com
>>> Sparx Systems Enterprise Architect and Ability Engineering EADocX Value
>>> Added Reseller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 9:48 AM, kilon alios <kilon.alios at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> please note that generating dlls alone wont be enough , plugins are
>>>> compiled against a runtime or specific libraries (a Plugin SDK) and
>>>> Smalltalk MT would have to be able to do that in order to be a viable
>>>> solution.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 10:28 AM, Stéphane Ducasse <
>>>> stephane.ducasse at inria.fr> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You should think that they use their smalltalk for their projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> Stef
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 9, 2013, at 9:21 AM, Clément Bera <bera.clement at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> How can people even know Smalltalk MT still exist with their website
>>>>> and their communication ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I looked at other Smalltalks a while ago, for Smalltalk MT I clicked
>>>>> on "what's new" on their website and I got that:
>>>>>
>>>>> <Screen Shot 2013-12-09 at 9.18.11 AM.png>
>>>>>
>>>>> Then I thought this Smalltalk was dead (nothing new in the past 4
>>>>> years) and I didn't look any further.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/12/8 Stéphane Ducasse <stephane.ducasse at inria.fr>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Yes - still alive and kicking. But I'm sure you did not notice
>>>>>> since there
>>>>>> > are no "big" announcements or advertising for it.
>>>>>> > ObjectConnect follows the "time is better invested into technology"
>>>>>> strategy.
>>>>>> > It is one of the most interesting Smalltalks ever implemented.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.objectconnect.com/stmt_overview.htm
>>>>>> I like the idea that you can get 50kb applications.
>>>>>> Now since this is a closed system and windows-centric.
>>>>>> But I like that it shows that Smalltalk does not have to be the image
>>>>>> centric way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > The newest ST/MT 6.3 version (now 64 bit) is from end of November
>>>>>> 2013
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Now it is not a community thing. :)
>>>>>> And the web site stop and 5.6 in 2009.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last time I talk to tarrick he told me that he could control the "no
>>>>>> gc in the next 250 frames on PS2"
>>>>>> but it was in 1998 :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stef
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> best,
> Eliot
>



-- 
best,
Eliot
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