[Vm-dev] Sista alternate bytecodes + Java Bytecode ?
jan.vrany at fit.cvut.cz
Tue Oct 17 16:04:48 UTC 2017
On Tue, 2017-10-17 at 16:53 +0200, Raffaello Giulietti wrote:
> Hi Ben,
> in addition to Clément's observations, you should not forget that
> existing JVM bytecode depends on the multi-threading capabilities of
> contemporary JVM implementation and its supporting platform
> (e.g., java.util.concurrent.* for concurrency frameworks,
> java.util.stream.* for parallel streams, etc.)
> So, besides the humongous work mentioned by Clément, I can only
> how hyper-humongous a work would it be to make the current
> VM multi-threaded to accommodate the JVM computational model inherent
> almost any real-world Java bytecode.
In my opinion, the "vastly simpler" model of current smalltalk VMs
makes the implementation of Java execution on top of them simpler, not
As for the real-world code, I do not recall any difficulties w.r.t.
smalltalk's "vastly simpler" model.
> On 2017-10-17 16:12, Raffaello Giulietti wrote:
> > Hi,
> > That question should be asked on vm-dev.
> > Just a detail, multibytecode set support is prior to the Sista
> > implementation, it was used for example in the context of Newspeak
> > (Squeak
> > and Newspeak bytecodes supported together). Sista uses that
> > feature, which
> > makes it look like new in the Pharo community since afaik no one
> > used it
> > before in the context of Pharo.
> > Then yes it is feasible to have the VM process Java bytecode, but
> > it's
> > humongous work. On the top my head, we would need to support typed
> > bytecodes for Numbers and exceptions at the bytecode level (which
> > in itself
> > is month of work, imagine raising an exception from Java/ST and
> > catch it
> > from the other runtime, with multiple ensure/try finally in
> > between)
> > Note that supporting the Java bytecode is far from enough to be
> > able to run
> > Java code (We also need core Java libraries support at least,
> > including
> > exceptions/stack reification model that should be able to interact
> > with
> > each other)
> > You can have a look at Smalltalk/X where the VM can run Java, C and
> > Smalltalk.
> > Regards
> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 1:57 PM, Ben Coman <btc at openinworld.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Just wondering about an exotic idea, with Sista facilitating
> > alternate
> > > bytecodes (btw, is that multiple bytecode sets within one
> > Image?), how
> > > feasible would it be to have the VM process Java bytecode?
> > >
> > > cheers -ben
> > >
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