[Vm-dev] [Pharo-dev] Squeak and Pharo speed differences

[Shaping]

Hi Shaping, I can't comment on parallelizing the VM.

That’s mostly what the thread is for, ultimately.  The refcaps are needed by the concurrent collector.  Some interesting memory-management options are surfacing soon with Verona.   That scheme is supposed to eliminate the cost of tracing refs to mutable objects in many small heaps.  This is the main cost of having all the small heaps with Orca protocol.  Verona should fix this.  I need to look into it further before discussing the details.

I was waiting to hear from you regarding 'CapabilitiesLocal' and its ref-cap state transition model.

Sorry for the delay.  I’ve not read the e-mail yet.  I’ll be a bit longer.  Thanks for the patience.

 

Shaping

 

On 5/16/20 11:29 PM, Shaping wrote:

Hi Shaping,

Hi Robert.  (We’ll get back to the parallelizing any day now…)

On 5/16/20 8:47 AM, Shaping wrote:

Can you tell me about those efforts?  I know the VM is one, maybe the biggest.  What else do Squeak folks work on?

 I also understand why the developers of the new Pharo preferences tree did not like to invest the same effort in Squeak. What incentive would they have?

 

Make all features (GUIs/frameworks) loadable into a new, mostly empty image.

 

Andso, here we have the biggest challenge to doing such sharing. You say all features should be loadable into either image. The issue is that Pharo has driven forwards in creating new load formats, such as Tonel. I tried to load up the Tonel format, but failed.

 

Who oversees stuff like this?

Specifically, why don’t we now make Tonel avaibable on Squeak, with the objective of equalizing access to source code, so that we can use one image ultimately—a nice steady gradual drift toward one image, so that no one is in too much pain at any one point in time.

Why wasn’t this done when Tonel was first created?  The Pharo dev probably didn’t see it as good use of  dev time.  I kindly suggest that this attitude change for all contributors to both Smalltalks.

How long is the list of format-related code/frameworks that need to be equalized, so that Squeak and Pharo can always load the same things?

 I couldn't get distracted from my core work.

Sure, I feel the same.  I imaging that most of us do.   

NO EFFORTS have been made to have Squeak able to load such formats, and the Pharo folks have deprecated the existing Montecello load format,

In my Pharo 9 I have a bit these bits:

 

Gofer new

    squeaksource: 'MetacelloRepository';

    package: 'ConfigurationOfAida';

    load.

  (Smalltalk at: #ConfigurationOfAida) load.

 

Metacello new

baseline:'Seaside3';

repository: 'github://SeasideSt/Seaside:master/repository';

load

In Squeak I can now ensureRecentMetacello, which I was not able to before. 

Installer ensureRecentMetacello.

Metacello new
  baseline: 'MagicMouse';
  repository: 'filetree:///home/quotar/tribe/MagicMouse/packages';
  load

However, I still choke on the Metacello #baseline:; #repository:. #load. It prints to the Transcript 

gofer repository error: 'GoferRepositoryError: UndefinedObject>>isAlphaNumeric'...ignoring
...FAILED->BaselineOfMagicMouse

I get a debugger on MetacelloFetchingMCSpecLoader>>#retryingResolvePackageSpecReferences: packageSpec gofer: gofer

The Gofer is pointing to a MCFileTreeRepository(filetree:///home/quotar/tribe/MagicMouse/packages) as its only repo. The packageSpec is thus:

spec 
    name: 'BaselineOfMagicMouse';
    repository: 'filetree:///home/quotar/tribe/MagicMouse/packages'.

At one time I had found what caused the #isAlphaNumeric error (I think an empty stream). The point is that I cannot load with Metacello in Squeak.

Here is code I use in Squeak to load Cryptography and ParrotTalk and SSL and Raven. This works in Squeak but not in Pharo.

Installer ss
    project: 'Cryptography'; install: 'ProCrypto-1-1-1';
    project: 'Cryptography'; install: 'ProCryptoTests-1-1-1';
    project: 'Cryptography'; install: 'CapabilitiesLocal';
    project: 'Oceanside'; install: 'ston-config-map';
    project: 'Cryptography'; install: 'SSLLoader;
    project: 'Cryptography'; install: 'Raven'.

Packages #1, #2, #4, and #5 are all Monticello configuration maps (.mcm), thus unloadable in Pharo...

 

If there is genuine respect for the value of Squeak and Pharo on both sides

Good question! We shall see. The feeling to me is a couple of stiff french fingers being sent Squeak's way. There is probably a french word for that..

K, r

-- 

Kindly,
Robert
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