Hi!
Avi Bryant avi.bryant@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 13:55:48 +0100, goran.krampe@bluefish.se goran.krampe@bluefish.se wrote:
I am still unsure if Lex is interested in merging Universes with SM or as I describe above we simply make SM able to map them and get to them. If Lex wants to continue with Universes totally separate from SM (meaning no merging) then I will simply make sure SM handles them as I always want SM to handle stuff in the Squeak community - it would then seem very stupid to add a similar mechanism to SM because then we would have two such competing mechanisms.
Well, exactly: this is an area where it's unlikely for two competing systems to both survive for long. People don't want to register the same package in two different places, with two different dependency systems, etc.
I agree fully.
One of three things is going to have to happen:
- We do a lot of work to merge the two concepts into a new package
repository system, that combines the best of both SM and Universes. Frankly, I think this would be a bad idea; the two were designed with different goals and different visions, and I think I've seen enough of
Not *that* different.
squeak-dev dynamics to know that we would spend more time arguing about how to do this merge than it was worth.
Well, perhaps. :) It mainly depends on the willingness of me and Lex IMHO. I just looked over the latest Universes source briefly and note that there is a LOT of overlap, IMHO a merge would do both systems some good - but again, this depends on what Lex wants.
- We do no work at all, and let the two of them fight it out
evolutionarily: people will register their packages with one or the other (or, for a time anyway, maybe even both), and eventually one will fade away into disuse. But this would be a shame, because as I mentioned in (1), they really have quite different goals - they happen to overlap in the area of managing a list of Squeak packages, but that's the *only* purpose of Universes, and is (in terms of vision) really just an incidental part of SqueakMap. Which suggests, to me, 3. We split the responsibility: SqueakMap is the "map of the Squeak world", which lists all the various resources like universes, repositories, people, websites, images, whatever. Universes are where you go to actually register a package. Each of them does what they do best, and there's a nice, well defined relationship between them.
Well, I have a variant 4 in mind that is a bit different. :)
Now, it's maybe it's a bad idea for me to use the names of the existing systems when describing (3) - clearly, SqueakMap in that scenario would look very different from how it does now (even if it were fairly similar internally), and Universes would have to change as well. Really, what I'm proposing is that we have *a* central, public system that holds metadata about resources like repositories (both development and release) and user accounts (ideally shared by all the various Squeak systems), and *a* system of distributed repositories in which package versions get registered. SqueakMap and Universes seem, respectively, like great starting points for these, but if (for example) you really don't like the Universes dependency model and want to propose that this fictional package repository system use another one instead, that would certainly fit within the scope of what I'm suggesting.
Well, I like choice - as long as it dosn't harm us. :) So I want people to be able to use Universes easily, but I also want to explore my dependency model etc, I don't want to give that up.
So my proposal is something like this (and of course, it all depends on Lex): - Make SM aware of other things like images, universes, repositories etc. - Still keep SM as the main catalog of packages and releases of them. - Make the Universes code use SM for the packages/releases. Looking at UPackage for example it is very much overlapping SMPackage. There may of course be issues with this approach but I would like to discuss it at least.
This would mean that there is one place to register a package or a release thereof. But then, you would be able to find the universes in SM, and be able to add a package etc to them instead of having to reregister the same data.
Something like that. But now I would like to know more about Lex feelings on the subject before discussing it further.
Avi
regards, Göran