Squeak-dev April 1999

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130 participants
319 discussions

RE: Hotspot at Last
by agree＠carltonfields.com 29 Apr '99

29 Apr '99

Word on /. is that we are taking about roughly a factor of two over the faster JIT VM's presently out there, with higher and lower performance saves depending upon the particular code and application. As John notes, relatively straight-line code that does nothing but loops and array references will not benefit much at all due to inherent costs of Java safety, but dynamic, highly object-oriented code likely to run with long session times, for example a servlet server, might exhibit relatively huge savings. One of the remarks I saw was that this approach goes a long way to reduce the disincentives to write truly reusable code, reducing the pain of message sends dramatically. Apparently the Hotspot is likewise agressive in performing inlining, both to reduce costs of sends, and to better exploit the benefits of global optimization analysis. -----Original Message----- From: MIME :John.Maloney@disney.com Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 3:12 PM To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hotspot at Last It *is* somewhat confusing, because Sun has several different groups working on Java optimization. But the HotSpot group includes a number of the Self/Animorphic guys, and they really have made heavy use of dynamic optimization. Plus, they've made the Java VM work even better than the Self VM. In particular, the "cold" code performance, before optimization, should be much better than the Self VM. I haven't seen any benchmark figures for the released VM, but I except the HotSpot VM to be fairly impressive compared with other Java VM's. The Animorphic VM certainly was. I would NOT expect it to exceed the performance of optimized C. Java is a much safer language than C (e.g., it always does array bounds checks and it doesn't allow pointer arithmetic), and that safety does have a price. However, to me, it is a price well worth paying for increased reliability. At 1:10 PM -0500 4/28/99, Dwight Hughes wrote: >Just off the top of my head, I would think that the lack of runtime type >info for Java's primitive types would make applying such dynamic >optimization in any general fashion a rather daunting task in practice. This isn't a problem, since the type info for built-in types is known at compile time, and can be retained for use by the run-time dynamic optimization system. -- John At 9:29 AM -0700 4/28/99, Travis Griggs wrote: >"Andrew C. Greenberg" wrote: > >> <snip> >> All kidding aside, it will be nice to see a serious, commercial >> dynamic optimization finally hit the decks. Unsurprisingly, Sun is >> already downplaying expectations, suggesting that Hotspot will be >> more significant on the server side than the client side, at least on >> the first release. (Quite true, since the server is likely to stay >> "warm" longer.) >> >> I did find the following bullet points in the white paper very >> amusing. It appears that Sun has discovered that the following >> tricks, in addition to its admittedly way-cool dynamic profiling and >> adaptive optimizing, can lead to improved peformance in a VM: >> <snip> > >It was my understanding (and this is a somewhat rumour driven >understanding) that the HotSpot VM, actually employs very little of the >"dynamic profiling and adaptive optimization" developed by the Sun Self >project and furthered by the Animorphic HotSpot work. That most of the >improvements in performance are of the more conventional sort. Maybe >others know more which would help dispel/validate this "rumour"? << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>

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[BUG - Morphic] Creating a new SystemWindowWithButton
by Norton, Chris 29 Apr '99

29 Apr '99

Hi Folks. I just tried to create a new SystemWindowWithButton from the Morphic "Add a New Morph" menu (under "Windows") and got the following walkback: "UndefinedObjects are not indexable". My Platform: Win NT 4.0, SP 3 running a baseline Squeak 2.4 w/ all of the updates (up to 1155) Analysis: A quick look at the walkback seems to indicate that the SystemWindowWithButton label is nil and something is asking nil for its size. This is probably due to the recent size method changes. ---==> Chris

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Re: Hotspot at Last
by jecel＠lsi.usp.br 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Note that Sun's announcement says that Hotspot is for server applications. That is because it takes a while for the optimizations to make a real difference in performance (client Java applications are more likely to just initialize, do something trivial and then die). So my guess is that they are indeed using Self derived technology in there... -- Jecel

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[BUG] browser update problem
by Joshua Gargus 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Hello everyone, I'm resending this because it seems to have been lost in the shuffle. It's not a question about how to use flaps; its about what seems to be a bug. I guess I should have used the [BUG] hint in the subject. Josh ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 27 Apr 1999 00:44:56 -0600 (MDT) From: Joshua Gargus <gargus(a)ugrad.cs.ualberta.ca> To: UIUC Squeak Mailing List <squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu> Subject: browser update problem Hi there, When I grab a browser from the right-hand global flap, it doesn't update itself when I add a new class, method, etc. If I get a new browser from the flap, it shows the changes. If I open a browser with 'open...' from the root menu, it works fine. I tried reinstating the flaps, and when that failed, I tried to figure out the problem from the 'Utilities reinstateGlobalFlaps' method; still no luck. Has anyone encountered this? I'm using image 2.4b with a few changes of my own that are almost too trivial to mention. Any suggestions? Thanks, Josh

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Can't Shrink Image In 2.4 VM
by Lawrence Press 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Is there a problem (still) with the Windows version of the Squeak 2.4 VM? I'm unable to shrink the 2.4b image when I run it in the 2.4 VM, but I can do so when running that same image under the 2.3 VM. Specifically, 1. Open the 2.4b image in the 2.4 VM; on a Workspace, execute (for example) Smalltalk discardVMConstruction. Smalltalk discardSoundSynthesis. Smalltalk discardOddsAndEnds. Smalltalk discardNetworking. Symbol rehash. Then save and quit; the Windows Explorer shows that the image file is the same size as before. 2. Now open a fresh copy of the 2.4b image in the 2.3 VM, execute the same code as before, save and quit -- lo and behold, the image file DID shrink. In fact, if you open the SAME image (instead of a fresh copy) in the 2.3 VM, you need only execute Symbol rehash. i.e. the discards seem to have worked; it was only the rehash that failed. What's going on here? Lawrence Press Questa Engineering Corp.

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RE: Win95 sound problem
by Raab, Andreas 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Not true. As long as there are the right driver installed (and if playing sounds from the media player works this should be the case) everything should be just fine. This is a weird problem indeed... Andreas -- +===== Andreas Raab ========= (andreasr(a)wdi.disney.com) ==+ | Walt Disney Imagineering Phone: +1 818 544 5016 I I Glendale, CA Fax: +1 818 544 4544 I +======< http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab >========+ > ---------- > From: Smilie > Reply To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Sent: Monday, April 26, 1999 5:01 AM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Cc: recipient list not shown > Subject: Re: Win95 sound problem > > > > Somewhere along the line I was told that your sound card has to be > SoundBlaster Pro compatiable. > > Jen > > On Sun, 25 Apr 1999, Michael Rutenberg wrote: > > > On my Win95 machine, I seem to have trouble getting squeak to make a > squeak. > > > > The machine is an IBM Thinkpad 600 Pentium II laptop, Windows 95 > 4.00.950B with lots of memory. I was hoping that something would > magically improve with the new 2.4 interpreter, but it seems no better. > > > > WAV files play fine using the normal Windows software. If I turn the > volume way up, I can hear an increase in static volume when I ask Squeak > to play a sound, but no sound itself. No Bach, for example. The Squeak > preferences are set to allow sound. > > > > Anyone have any good ideas? I think I have checked all the normal > things. > > > > Mike > > > > >

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RE: Hotspot at Last
by agree＠carltonfields.com 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

That would be a facinating fact, if true, given the amount of real estate dedicated to dynamic optimization in the white paper. -----Original Message----- From: MIME :tgriggs@keyww.com Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 12:36 PM To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Hotspot at Last "Andrew C. Greenberg" wrote: > <snip> > All kidding aside, it will be nice to see a serious, commercial > dynamic optimization finally hit the decks. Unsurprisingly, Sun is > already downplaying expectations, suggesting that Hotspot will be > more significant on the server side than the client side, at least on > the first release. (Quite true, since the server is likely to stay > "warm" longer.) > > I did find the following bullet points in the white paper very > amusing. It appears that Sun has discovered that the following > tricks, in addition to its admittedly way-cool dynamic profiling and > adaptive optimizing, can lead to improved peformance in a VM: > <snip> It was my understanding (and this is a somewhat rumour driven understanding) that the HotSpot VM, actually employs very little of the "dynamic profiling and adaptive optimization" developed by the Sun Self project and furthered by the Animorphic HotSpot work. That most of the improvements in performance are of the more conventional sort. Maybe others know more which would help dispel/validate this "rumour"? -- Travis Griggs (a.k.a. Lord of the Fries) Member, Fraven Skreiggs Software Collective Key Technology P-P-P-Penguin Power! << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>

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RE: Got the Jitters?
by agree＠carltonfields.com 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Is there a Macintosh version anywhere? -----Original Message----- From: MIME :dwighth@ipa.net Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 1999 1:13 PM To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu Subject: Re: Got the Jitters? Andreas Raab generated a version of this for Win32: "Raab, Andreas" wrote: > > ... and for those curious but bound to Windows ... > > http://isgwww.cs.uni-magdeburg.de/~raab/squeak/beta/ > > contains the precompiled VM (with builtin J2) to play. > Note that you have to enable/disable the J2 by executing > > Smalltalk compilerEnable > Smalltalk compilerDisable > > to see anything interesting happening. > > Have fun (and a big THANKS to Ian), > Andreas -- Dwight O'NEEL Bruce wrote: > > Hi, > It might not be the most recent, but, there was a note a few months > ago about progress: > > http://macos.tuwien.ac.at:9009/1054002162.asHtml > > Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:45:14 +0100 (MET) > From: Ian Piumarta > Subject: For the curious... > > ...the following is temporarily available on alix: > > ftp://alix.inria.fr/pub/squeak/unix/Jitter-2.990225.2055 > > It's configured for Linux (only), and should not yet be considered as > suitable for general consumption. VM hackers might be interested > though. The README contains build instructions. Enjoy! > > Ian > ------------------------------- projet SOR ------------------------------- > Ian Piumarta, INRIA Rocquencourt, Internet: Ian.Piumarta(a)inria.fr > BP105, 78153 Le Chesnay Cedex, FRANCE Voice: +33 1 39 63 52 87 > ----------------------- Systemes a Objets Repartis ----------------------- > > -- > Reality is 80m polygons - Alvy Ray Smith > Bruce O'Neel - beoneel(a)mindspring.com > http://homepage.iprolink.ch/~bioneel/beo/beo.html - daily stuff << File: ENVELOPE.TXT >>

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Re: Got the Jitters?
by O'NEEL Bruce 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Hi, It might not be the most recent, but, there was a note a few months ago about progress: http://macos.tuwien.ac.at:9009/1054002162.asHtml Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 21:45:14 +0100 (MET) From: Ian Piumarta Subject: For the curious... ....the following is temporarily available on alix: ftp://alix.inria.fr/pub/squeak/unix/Jitter-2.990225.2055 It's configured for Linux (only), and should not yet be considered as suitable for general consumption. VM hackers might be interested though. The README contains build instructions. Enjoy! Ian ------------------------------- projet SOR ------------------------------- Ian Piumarta, INRIA Rocquencourt, Internet: Ian.Piumarta(a)inria.fr BP105, 78153 Le Chesnay Cedex, FRANCE Voice: +33 1 39 63 52 87 ----------------------- Systemes a Objets Repartis ----------------------- -- Reality is 80m polygons - Alvy Ray Smith Bruce O'Neel - beoneel(a)mindspring.com http://homepage.iprolink.ch/~bioneel/beo/beo.html - daily stuff

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Re: Hotspot at Last
by ohshima＠is.titech.ac.jp 28 Apr '99

28 Apr '99

Hi, > I did find the following bullet points in the white paper very > amusing. It appears that Sun has discovered that the following > tricks, in addition to its admittedly way-cool dynamic profiling and > adaptive optimizing, can lead to improved peformance in a VM: > > (*) Handle-less pointers; > > (*) Shorter (two-word) object handles; I found there is a sentense on the white paper: "only arrays have a third header field, for the array size." > (*) Generational, copying compacting garbage collection, > which they repeatedly characterize as "pauseless;" and The algorithm is also called as "mark-compact algorithm". More and more I read the white paper, it reminds me the design and implementation of Squeak (and Self, of course). > <<YOU GOTTA LOVE THIS!>> > > (*) Reflective Data (Classes, MetaClasses and Methods) are > now represented as first-class objects to facilitate a simpler object > memory model and faster garbage collection. I think the biggest difference is the way for management of "Contexts." HotSpot VM uses native machine's stack for the performance and possible parallel execution, though it may be the source of memory leaks:-) OHSHIMA Yoshiki Dept. of Mathematical and Computing Sciences Tokyo Institute of Technology

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