Squeak-dev April 2001

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165 participants
614 discussions

Re: Emergency Evaluator + BSS
by Jörn Eyrich 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Ross Boylan wrote: > > There seem to be mirrors at (at least) > > * www.bluefish.se/minnow > Hmm.. that doesn't work for me, though my browser ends up pointing at > localhost/minnow. Perhaps there's a bad URL at that site? oops, incomplete link, use: www.bluefish.se/minnow/1.html > However, I wasn't sure the 2 sources files are the same, since Linux > is v 3.0 while windows is 3.1. oh, I see - I think the convention is that there is exactly one sources file per major version.

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Re: SyntaxHighlighting on 3.0
by Helge Horch 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

At 23:30 25.04.2001 -0400, you wrote: >On Wed, 25 Apr 2001, Aron Brener wrote: > > > When I was using version 2.7 I used SyntaxHighlighting to highlight > > my code. I upgraded to 3.0 and loaded it into my image. It worked ok > > for a while but not it gives me a mnu #writeOnScan: > >Question: why use this instead of pretty printing with color? I like it because it leaves the formatting intact. Just look what pretty printing does to code like Preferences class>>initializeSyntaxColorsAndStyles (the remnant of yet another style system, hehe). I also find code formatted like Integer>>take: easier to read without pretty printing that with it. Like I said, personal preference, and we sure could customize pretty printing instead. On the other hand, yes, the highlighting as-is is far from perfect (try ByteArray>>shortAt:put:bigEndian:), and one may argue whether it is desirable to duplicate so much Parser functionality... On the gripping hand, I'm so used to it. Helps me recognize global and class references in a glimpse. The "rewrite" that is mentioned on my page is actually somewhat down on the list right now... :-/ Cheers, Helge Newsflash: Method invented to cut spare time from thin air. Film at 11.

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Re: StarLogoAnts and missing class
by John M McIntosh 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

>Ross, > >Bob is right, you need a 3.1 image updated at least through update >"3830StarSqueak". >For best performance, you also need the StarSqueakPlugin for your >platform. I attach >the Mac version (it's tiny). > > -- John > Note since the Mac VM at v3.0.10 the StartSqueakPlugin is internal to the VM, so you don't need the external plugin. -- -- =========================================================================== John M. McIntosh <johnmci(a)smalltalkconsulting.com> 1-800-477-2659 Corporate Smalltalk Consulting Ltd. http://www.smalltalkconsulting.com ===========================================================================

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Re: Emergency Evaluator + BSS
by Karl Ramberg 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

Bob Arning wrote: > > Ross, > > On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:40:10 -0700 Ross Boylan <RossBoylan(a)stanfordalumni.org> wrote: > >What can I do in the emergency evaluator? > > The thing I find most useful is > > Project current exit > > while will send you back to the previous project which hopefully still works. Does anybody know how dependent a MVC project is of morphic ? It could be usefull to have a MVC project around to jump into in case mophic breaks during hazardous coding :-) And then write something like Project MVC enter Also I think Project current exit should be added to the little help text at the top of the emergency evaluator. Karl

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RE: Newsweek article on "Dynabook-like" computer
by Raab, Andreas 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

> Perhaps this is the article: > http://www.msnbc.com/news/562895.asp Yup. It is. - Andreas

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Re: Smalltalk & Squeak featured on Slashdot
by Richard A. O'Keefe 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

A couple of people have now answered by "who is harmed by the present image size" questions. Looking back through an old OOPSLA proceedings, I stumbled across a paper about Squeak. The image back then was about 1MB. Now it is about 9MB. It would be interesting to know roughly where the space is going. - IDE - Morphic - Scamper - Celeste - Balloon3D - Alice - Sound - Speech - ... Scamper is cute, but it feels even slower than HotJava (which is saying something) and I can't print from it, so *for me* it is bloat. Celeste is cool, but I continue to use /usr/bin/mailx as my mailer precisely because it *can't* do fancy things, and I had trouble hooking it into UNIX mail anyway, so *for me* it is bloat. 3D graphics is an important part of making Squeak a great multimedia system, but *for me* it's bloat. I put up with this "bloat" for several reasons. One hasn't been mentioned in _this_ context, at least not recently. If something isn't in the base image, it stops working. Simply because all of these "modules" share an address space, you have no reason to believe that a "module" will work in any combination of modules you haven't actually tested it in. The things I've mentioned as bloat *for me* are core functionality for many many other people, and it is important that those things not stop working. There is an indirect benefit, or would be if I knew how to run regression tests for all those other things. If I develop something useful (and I'm working on it, I'm working on it) I would like to be sure that it won't break anything. Now, I don't delete any existing classes, and I don't delete any existing methods, but I *do* add some methods to existing classes. (For example, I have added methods reverseDetect: aBlock ifNone: exceptionBlock reverseDetect: aBlock to SequenceableCollection.) That could well break some other project that wants to use these methods for something else. (In the case of those two methods, I seriously doubt it. But you never know. And they are not the only such methods.) It would certainly be nice to be able to do "Smalltalk testEverything" before going home at night... There's something I don't know, isn't there (:-)? Anyone who would like to use Squeak, but does a lot of programming "for the web" (e.g. needing to run on someone else's webhost where they only have CGI access) or system administration. It seems like novice programmers (sysadmins with little programming experience) would be greatly benefitted by squeak's environment, but would be unable to squeeze the image down into their environments where something like Python, Perl, or sh would be suitable. (The python and perl environments end up being about the same size as squeak, and take much longer to load if you need everything -- but you have options as to how much you want to load.) An empty wish or TkPerl isn't that far off Squeak 1.x in size. (AMAZING!) (We're talking orders-of-magnitude here, not percentage points.) > It seems fair to say that if you are happy to use Acrobat reader, the size > of Squeak 2.7 should not worry you either. If you're thinking in terms of huge graphical applications, yes. It is not at all obvious to me why Acrobat Reader *should* be a "huge" graphical application. But if you're talking about scripts or CGIs, it's a problem. Is _any_ Smalltalk dialect used for such applications? I suppose GNU Smalltalk or Budd's Little Smalltalk might be usable. Squeak is - a multimedia library - a compiler and development environment amongst other things. Let's compare it with another OO compiler. I ran javac, compiling a 60-SLOC example from IBM. (ClientServer.java, if you know it.) Total VM size: 38MB; RSS: 15MB. And that's just compiling. Somehow, I don't think Sun's "javac" does 3D graphics in its spare time... I found this result for java very very surprising. Don't take it too seriously until someone else can reproduce it. The command I used was javac ClientServer.java & ps -lu -u $LOGNAME I'm not sure that I *have* a position on the "is Squeak bloated" question. I can see value in having a smaller image; but everywhere I look I see systems that are _less_ useful to me taking _more_ memory.

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Re: Out of curiosity...
by Bob Arning 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:04:03 -0400 Joshua Channing Gargus <schwa(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: >How does Squeak decide when to ask for your initials? I have an >image that I've been sending between school and home, and every >time I start it up for the first time on the other computer and >submit a method, it asks for my initials. Joshua, It's when the path to the squeak directory has changed. See SystemDictionary>>openSourceFiles. Cheers, Bob

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Morph Q's on alignment and text editing
by Ross Boylan 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

I have some newbie questions about morphs. ALIGNMENT I am sticking some morphs into a morph (a RectangleMorph) with topToBottom listDirection. I would like them to be along the left edge. However, setting listCentering: #topLeft doesn't help. How do I achieve the desired effect? EDITING TEXT My subclass of RectangleMorph has an UpdatingStringMorph in it. It doesn't seem to be getting any of the text I type. What do I need to tweak to make this work? I am using the UpdatingStringMorph because I have a model elsewhere that holds the text; I thought this might be the best way to approach it. However, there are a lot of textual things floating around (TextMorph, StringMorph, UpdatingStringMorph, and I think some others). What should I use in what situation? Also, my text (set programmatically) displays with the apostrophes around it. The underlying model is 'some text' (a string, not a text object). Is there a way to get rid of the "'"? MENUS Currently I'm overriding yellow button down to pop up a MenuMorph. But I see lots of menu-y methods around, and wonder if there is a way to piggy back my menu onto an existing one. I'm holding at 3.0 for now. Thanks.

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Out of curiosity...
by Joshua Channing Gargus 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

How does Squeak decide when to ask for your initials? I have an image that I've been sending between school and home, and every time I start it up for the first time on the other computer and submit a method, it asks for my initials. Just curious, Joshua

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[BUG]Filing in changeset over older version does not update preamble
by Tim Rowledge 26 Apr '01

26 Apr '01

In a 3910 image on linuxPPC - file in a later version of a changesfile via the FileBrowser. All the code is updated ok but the preamble stays the old version. Could be an embarrasing cause of bugs. tim -- Tim Rowledge, tim(a)sumeru.stanford.edu, http://sumeru.stanford.edu/tim Fractured Idiom:- ALOHA OY - Love; greetings; farewell; from such a pain you should never know

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