Squeak-dev June 2001

squeak-dev@lists.squeakfoundation.org

122 participants
362 discussions

Re: Onward and Upward
by Randy Siler 02 Jun '01

02 Jun '01

Just curious: Does this involve a disassociation with Disney? > From: Dan Ingalls <Dan.Ingalls(a)squeakland.org> > Reply-To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2001 11:21:46 -0700 > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Subject: Onward and Upward > Resent-From: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Resent-Date: 1 Jun 2001 18:18:24 -0000 > > > -- > Folks - > > You may notice that the members of Squeak Central have new email addresses > today. > > We have long contemplated a more independent existence, and the time has come > to take that step. We have formed "The Learning Research Institute" to > continue our interests in "Personal Computing For Children of All Ages" and > all of us are now part of "LRI". > > For members of this list, there should be no noticeable impact. Squeak is our > vehicle of choice, and we will continue to bestow the usual attention on it as > well as on our evolving vision of personal and interpersonal computing. We > remain committed to maximizing synergy in the Squeak community through > collaboration and coordinated evolution of Squeak itself. > > For us, the change enables a continued focus on the barriers that remain > between the potential of Squeak and what is accessible to the large majority > of children and adults in the world. It also allows us to press on with the > SqueakLand work, opening what we have achieved so far to everyone connected to > the Internet. > > With a Squeak Foundation taking shape, and important results emerging from the > Stable Squeak World Tour, this is a time of opportunity. Our intention, as > always, is to work entirely in the open, and to collaborate with the rest of > the community in every way possible. > > On to SqueakLand! > > - Dan, for all of us at SqC > > >

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Re: Squeakland Evolution project thingy
by JArchibald＠aol.com 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

=> 5/31/01 10:12:20 AM EDT, K.Hodges(a)ftel.co.uk => << "If we hold the theory of evolution to be true, which it is likely to be given the philosphical viewpoint or axiom that assumes there is no outside agent then it is likely that the process of evolution evolved the animals, both their bodies and their habits ..." >> It is suggested by other contributions that this sentence may be difficult to parse for sixth graders. I would suggest it's not too easy for adults, either. Nonetheless, to jump in the pool with all you philosophical sharks here for a minute, let's give it a try. Rephrasing ==> ---------------------------------------------- 1. The assumption that there is no outside agent implies that the theory of evolution is true. 2. If we hold the theory of evolution to be true then it is likely that the process of evolution evolved the animals, both their bodies and their habits ... 3. (I guess) ... thus the assumption that there is not outside agent implies the likelihood that the process of ... etc. ---------------------------------------------- Does this work? If so, I have two (actually three) naive questions about this outlook: Question 0: First an aside on the assumption: Why? For example, is there not the possibility of such a "thing" as an ‘inside’ agent (genetic, vibrational, etc.). Can we not conceive of other mechanisms? Question 1: Nonetheless, to examine the truth of the sentence itself, let us take the contrapositive: If the theory of evolution is false, then there is an outside agent. Is this a true sentence? Question 2: Is this the only description (ToE) which fit this process? Not that the ToE does not have a certain elegance of simplicity. But nothing of its rightness suggests exhaustiveness or exclusivity in its description of the "evolutionary" process. Is that not so? ---------------------------------------------- None of this appears tautological to me. I have read philosophy for 45 of my 60 years. I graduated from sixth grade in 1952. Maybe I would have understood it better then. :-) I can tell it's Friday afternoon, Jerry. ____________________________ Jerry L. Archibald systemObjectivesIncorporated ____________________________

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Re: Squeakland Evolution project thingy
by Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

Agreed. However, even parsing that sentence would be more than many young readers are now capable of. Best, Joshua On Fri, Jun 01, 2001 at 11:57:08AM -0700, Galchin Vasili wrote: > As far as "six graders" are concerned, it never kills > anybody to develop the skill to think critically! > > Regards, > > Vasili N Galchin > > --- Joshua 'Schwa' Gargus <schwa(a)cc.gatech.edu> wrote: > > On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:11:01PM +0100, Keith > > Hodges wrote: > > > > <snip> > > > > > What I would prefer to see is people using > > language to say what they really > > > mean, something like this "If we hold the theory > > of evolution to be true, which > > > it is likely to be given the philosphical > > viewpoint or axiom that assumes there > > > is no outside agent then it is likely that the > > process of evolution evolved the > > > animals, both their bodies and their habits ..." > > > > Umm... keep in mind the target audience for the > > active essay that sparked this > > thread. Don't you think that this wording might be > > a bit much for a sixth grade > > student? > > > > <snip> > > > > Joshua > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 > a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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squeak@cs.uiuc.edu no longer list address?
by Ned Konz 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

I just got a couple of responses presumably from code that I posted to the list from within Squeak. These look like: -------------------- The account squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu is nolonger at this address. (Ted Kaehler, Fri Jun 1 09:26:52 2001) The user squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu that you emailed to is no longer at this address. Your email has been forwarded to their new address. Their new address is: Ted.Kaehler(a)squeakland.org. Please adjust your future mailings accordingly. Sincerely, WDI Information Services. This has been an automated response. ---------------- So is squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu not the right list address? If so, shouldn't Squeak be told about this? -- Ned Konz currently: Stanwood, WA email: ned(a)bike-nomad.com homepage: http://bike-nomad.com

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[ANN] StableSqueak first release - 0.1!
by G�ran Hultgren 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

I am posting this on behalf of John who has trouble with his connection. Last minute note: Before you guys jump in - the Squeakfoundation server was moved just a few hours ago so it seems a file has gone missing in that process - a contribution for Mac users by Henrik Gedenryd. Henrik will probably upload it again within a few hours as soon as he reads his email. Ok, enough with the silly talk, here is John: ----------------- For the impatient, a public crash dummy release of the Squeak World Tour code is available at: http://swiki.squeakfoundation.org/stablesqueak Others are advised to wait a few days when a far more comprehensible update will be released. Mail will be sent to the list upon each release update. Documentation in the image is currently out of sync with the code. Not all of the subsystems have been placed in the repository, nor does the distribution match exactly what Goran Hultgren describes in his very informative report on the prerelease. Andreas Raab has graciously provided me with code snippets that will make the image play happily with the latest 3.1 VM. These changes will be going in this weekend with documentation correction, cleanup and enhancement. Further code should also have loadable configurations. Further, mac users will probably have to know how to set the creator flags on the image file in order for it to be double clickable. (Quoted text is from the article, "Design Principles Behind Smalltalk" by some guy named Dan Ingalls) The Squeak world tour is a traveling feast that has roamed around the world with the express intention of reflecting upon the core of Squeak and applying refactorings to make the code more reusable and configurable. It is an offshoot of the Camp Smalltalk project which is an ad hoc community effort to build lots of really useful stuff that is portable to all of the major dialects of Smalltalk. It was Ralph Johnson who suggested a tour guide. Someone to give a thread of continuity to the effort. That role somehow fell upon my head. In my role as tour guide I cull bits and pieces of work that others have done and reshape them into something new called the Squeak World Tour image. It is my express goal to serve as a shepherd in this process. It is my fervent hope that a myriad of configurations will grow from this base as people explore their passions and use the environment to experiment with new ways of doing things. After all, a fundamental principle in the design of Smalltalk is... "Personal Mastery: If a system is to serve the creative spirit, it must be entirely comprehensible to a single individual." Smalltalk has quite admirably addressed this principle in its image based development. The first releases of the World Tour are intended to come up with the smallest possible image that is still a usable development environment. Further, the code that comprises this is externalized in a repository, first as fileins later as modules or whatever else people choose to do. Configurations of these files may be named and revisioned as well. A very small bootstrap of very portable code is all that is required to allow other dialects to access one of these repositories. "Modularity: No component in a complex system should depend on the internal details of any other component." Most of the early work in the tour was directed toward understanding unnecessary coupling of classes and methods in the base image. Models don't need explicit knowledge of morphs and view, so that was factored out. Two very important goodies in the first release are Smalllint and RefactoringBrowser. These are two extremely powerful tools for examining the code base and making controlled improvements to said code base. "Natural Selection: Languages and systems that are of sound design will persist, to be supplanted only by better ones." I am a strong believer in self organizing systems and evolution as tools of progress. Unlike others on the list, I think forking is good. With the caveat that one needs to be able to share the best of what one does with others who may live on other branches or even in different trees. (What is the sound of a metaphor breaking? ;-}> ) The fear of forking comes in that one may wind up on an evolutionary dead end... abandanado and verloren. If we can recognize, name, and structure variation, then we have a means of sharing the valuable parts of our experimentation with others... even if they reject our world as a whole. My belief system asserts that variation is the means of evolution and selection is the process. Making tools to recognize, categorize and revision variation gives us the tools and vocabulary to cross fertilize ideas (not only between different Squeak images, but between any Smalltalk images) and intentionally select which features from which experiments get included in subsequent variations. "Purpose of Language: To provide a framework for communication." Finally, when answering developers asking for guidance and tasking I have tried to focus not on dictating how things get done, but define tasks that will facilitate sharing objects and information as widely and freely as possible. I see a world in which we each can be master of our own image and construct it from uniform components. The goal is to facilitate each developer in their process of evolving the language/environment to meet their particular needs. Both in supporting the selection of desirable traits and features as well as in not requiring the inclusion of features that are not used. John Sarkela :-}> Squeak World Tour Guide ===== G�ran Hultgren, goran.hultgren(a)bluefish.se GSM: +46 70 3933950, http://www.bluefish.se "Department of Redundancy department." -- ThinkGeek __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year! http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

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Re: More advanced Graphing
by J Scott Jaderholm 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

Ned Konz <ned(a)bike-nomad.com> writes: > Do you need interaction or not? GraphMorph has a lot of logic for cursor > control. You mean the red line that's placed there with the mouse? So far I've not used that and I don't think I will be using it. > Do you need it to change in real time (i.e. as data is coming in)? Scroll? I don't need it to change in real time, nor do I need it to scroll, although scrolling might be nice (it's not a priority at the moment). Sincerely, jsj -- the sky is tired of being blue

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Re: [BUG] VM Crash
by John.Maloney＠disney.com 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

Dave, Try turning off the preference "stopSoundWhenDone". It sounds as though there may be a bug in the sound player primitive that causes it to fail on startup some of the time. Changing the preference should keep the sound player running continuously rather than turning it off when no sound is playing. Let me know if this solves the problem. If so, it will help us find the bug in the sound startup primitive. -- John At 1:17 PM -0400 5/31/01, David N. Smith $IBM$ wrote: >The Windows VM crashes for me now and then when playing MIDI on 3.0. The screen shows: > > Sorry but the VM has crashed. > > Exception code: C0000005 > Exception address: 4B435553 > Current byte code: 144 > Primitive index: 117 > >Virtually the same thing happens at other times, always on a key down, and always after other notes have been successfully played. I cannot reproduce it on demand; it just happens. > >Anyone have any ideas? > >Dave >Content-Id: <p05100300b73c2860bf37(a)[32.228.120.140].0.0> >Content-Type: multipart/appledouble; boundary="============_-1220793046==_D============" > > >Content-Type: application/applefile; name="%DNS_CRASH.DMP" >Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="%DNS_CRASH.DMP" > ; modification-date="Thu, 31 May 2001 13:06:14 -0400" > >Attachment converted: Sackbut:DNS CRASH.DMP (TEXT/dosa) (0000DD58) >The attachment contained extra information, map: 8

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Re: CAS and Squeak (emerging... ;-))
by David N. Smith (IBM) 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

At 9:54 -0400 6/1/01, Sam Adams wrote: > Something like >that in Morphic would be way cool. Consider a little robot (or even >better, several) wandering around your desktop reassembling morphs, >copying, stealing and de/recomposing scripts. Sort of like blobmorphs with >a mission. I did, Sam, and decided it would be better on your desktop! :-) (After all, almost all variations on a genetic theme are garbage.) Dave -- _______________________________ David N. Smith IBM T J Watson Research Center Hawthorne, NY dnsmith(a)watson.ibm.com

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RE: Community and Artifact Define One Another
by Stephen Pair 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

I was not attempting to rewrite history (indeed, attempts at rewriting history really boil my blood...so please be careful when making such accusations). I guess it comes down to your interpretation of what exactly constitutes a fork. My definition of a fork is any line of development that occurs in parallel to any other line of development. When you download Squeak and begin writing code, you have just forked. (this very technical view of forking is perhaps influenced by my experience in developing source code management systems) The real question is: "how often are the forks synchronized?" If Je77 and Bolot's answer to this question for ComSwiki was never, I would consider that unfortunate. However, ComSwiki does get syncronized periodically...and the more often it is synchronized, the less work involved. A nice service that someone could provide is to maintain a web page that listed the major forks (lines of development) and for each fork, maintain a "synchronization index" that was calculated based on the frequency that the fork was updated to load and run correctly in the current Squeak release (forks could also have SIs relative to other forks as well). This information would give people an idea of how current a particular line of development stays and perhaps influence their decision whether or not to follow it (of course, past results are not necessarily an indication of future performance). So, regardless of what the StSq people may say about forks, according to my definition, they forked long ago. And, I hope they sync up soon and often. - Stephen > -----Original Message----- > From: Andreas Kuckartz [mailto:a.kuckartz@dokom.net] > Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 3:12 PM > To: squeak(a)cs.uiuc.edu > Subject: Re: Community and Artifact Define One Another > > > Stephen Pair wrote: > > > I think people seem to forget that for a long time now, we've had a fork > > that has quite successfully co-existed with the rest of the Squeak > > community. I think it has also been mutually beneficial. It's called > > ComSwiki and can be downloaded at: > > > > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/swiki > > Sorry, but this is wrong - please do not try to rewrite history to justify > forks. For a long time now the up-to-date ComSwiki-sources have been made > available by the authors and they could be filed in to an unforked image. > Maybe the source is not (yet) available for the most recent version for > whatever reason but that was not the case before. > > Andreas > > BTW: The StSq-people have made a decision that they do *not* want to be > forkers and therefore all debates about forks have become much > less relevant > as far as I am concerned. > >

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RE: consolidating squeak web presence
by Bert Freudenberg 01 Jun '01

01 Jun '01

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Noel J. Bergman wrote: > > my view is that we should have a rewrite rule on minnow that hides it. So > > when addressed as http://swiki.squeak.org, the wiki appears at the top > > level. > > Based on your comment above, though, I don't think you're actually > > arguing in favor of keeping the /squeak/ path visible. Am I right? > > Correct, I am not. :-) There are several mechanisms which could be used to > cause the Squeak swiki to appear as the root, when coming from that host. Currently, the default document (/) lists all the Swikis on that site. But this can be changed easily - I'm just not sure how the GA-Tech folks feel about this ... If the only point is to help memorizing the URL, a simple redirect scheme works well. For example, my http://swiki.gsug.org:8888/ is redirected to http://swiki.gsug.org:8888/gsug/ while the original swiki list can be accessed via http://swiki.gsug.org:8888/all -- Bert

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