Squeak-dev July 2001

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168 participants
308 discussions

Turmites
by R Allan Baruz 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi all. Enclosed is an implementation of Greg Turk's "Turmites" as described by A K Dewdney in his "Computer Recreations" column in _Scientific American_. Any comments on making it better, faster, more Smalltalk-like, or anything else, would be appreciated. Pull up a ProcessBrowser (I'm working on it!) and try: aCity _ CityTurmite new initialize. aCity iterateAndDisplay I was going to implement it as a Morph, but decided to factor this stuff out so I could put more than one Turmite per form. Allan. ===== R Allan Baruz "He was a verray parfit gentil knight." --Chaucer __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger http://phonecard.yahoo.com/

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RE: The goal of K-12 CS education
by G.J.Tielemans＠dinkel.utwente.nl 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

-----Original Message----- From: Edwin Pilobello [mailto:edwinp13@home.com] Sent: maandag 30 juli 2001 9:06 To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: The goal of K-12 CS education NEW THREAD - was : Bongo a Java for kids Scott, In the US, Logo is not as popular anymore as in the rest of the world. As proof, there is a big conference coming up in Austria in August. For Logo links, check out http://el.www.media.mit.edu/groups/logo-foundation/ > Ger: In The Netherlands Logo is death, we had our golden age in 1988. > Several efforts for revival (later) did not work out. > Of course we also have our die-hards. ... The real question is : "What is the goal of K-12 Computer Science Education?" I raise this question because I feel it's a very important market for SQUEAK apps. I submit that it is for the students to learn logic, structure and object-orientation. Next to playing "Hot, hot cold", these concepts can be learned through programming. Throw in robotics and it becomes more kinestetic and emergent. It's hard for a kid to argue that his perfect Robolab program isn't working because of the RCX. It's easy to "act out" the program to show that the robot is doing "exactly" what he told it to do. Then they learn that programming is an applied IQ test ... pattern recognition, classification, analogies, math, logical reasoning and general knowledge > Ger: the problem is that there is no easy transfer from learning logic in logo or robotics > to other learning-areas: > "Someone good in Logo is also good in... other Logo-problems." > (Despite Harvey's books about mathematics in Logo at university level...) > > I did prefer the approaches where children did projects in Logo, > So it was more close to their real (complex) normal learning-behavior. > > So, not Logo "sec" but formulating, organizing and solving their own problems in a more > systematic way then we thougt they usually do.... > (We already new that we could not reach our goal by learning them GPS's ) > (General Problem Solvers, even if we made the GPS's dedicated to a class or ) > ( group of domain specific problems..) > > In this project approach children formulated their own targets > They had to reformulate it in a solvable problem, > they had to divide their problem in smaller parts, > solve the smaller problems, > keep record of their efforts, > reflect on it, > write down new plans to tackle the problem > and at last: reassemble it then to the final solution.. > >BUT: > Projects did not fit (and still do not fit) in the timeFrame of a regular Dutch school-schedule > ...even a small project would take to much time of the more important school-subjects... >BUT ALSO: > Children do much more clever things then we normally think they do: > There is this joke that the word Lesson comes from the word Less, because a teacher > removes all the complex-parts from a interesting real-life-problem until it gets so > buring that it only can be educational... > My first educational program on my Tandy model-I (1980) should become > a teaching-tool that could handle a typical Dutch verb-problem in the context of a sentence. > Many Dutch students still not have control over this problem at university level.. > To make a long story short: The complexity of the problem was so overwelming that > I had to give up and ended up with deep respect for all these children who have this > skill when they finish primary school: TEACHING them all these skills would cost more time then > there ever will be in a school-time-table... > So change your target: How can we mobilize all these hidden capacity in children by offering > them learning environments that help them reflect on their learning (on their own? in a group?) Problem is, they then hide behind the excuse that they haven't finished constructing yet. However good constructioNism is, it is still a subset constructiVism. > No, we see this almsot finished behavior also with our 20-year-old-students, > working on a multimedia-project: they want to finish THEIR project, > solving THEIR problems on their own, > feeling THEIR success in reaching THEIR goals... > > and not the goals of the teacher with his stupid ideas about reflection etc.... It takes a great deal of trust before the kids can begin to explore on their own and learn from their mistakes. They are so conditioned to get punished for their mistakes. So they tend to want to hide their lack of understanding. After getting them to open up, get excited, and push the class beyond the time limits, then the next probleam is cleaning up and sorting the legos. > Don't blame the children, in the old days our LOGO-goeroe's had a tric: > (I remember van Pinxteren form the Logo-Centre in Holland.) > they told children they no longer could make mistakes, > children only would create bugs, friendly animals they had to solve... > But still then they did stick to their OWN unsolved.. mistakes? > > ..Remember the days when you wrote your first programs and you could not > solve it: You against that stupid computer and then the joy of finding the > solution in the middle of the night. > I still like that feeling... my wife calls it the surviving child in me.. So, in my quest to find a solution to the logistical problems associated with Lego/Logo, I thought of using animatronics. This combines my two loves of programming and robotics into high-tech puppetry. So the talking heads got me into SQUEAK. Again, I'd rather lug a notebook to class than a cart with lots of connections and servos that the kids can't seem to keep within design limits. It's truly a "head-banger". :-) edwin > In the old days (1988) we had "Karel the Robot" (language: Elan/Algol68) > a kind of turtle you had to teach running a maze on the screen. > It was fun to do, but you could not predict if "clever Karel" would survive > if you would change the maze a little: ...again low transfer > I also saw many graphical versions, even with graphical logic-schemes > but the feeling of no control or growing insight stays > > Game of Life gives you the same feeling of unexpected and unpredictable > complex results - even with so little and simple rules - and ending up > with suprising complex results. > > point I want to make is that organizing learning settings with enough > transfer to more general learning settings is like a Tantalus-torture > Somewhere - very near - there must be a solution, you have the idea > that you - with all your experience are just so close to that solution > but... > It is here that I share you enthousiasm: Squeak offers a set of tools > that can help us create interesting learning environments, only... P.S. - If you wish to re-acquaint yourself with the turtle, I would recommended MSW Logo for "pros" or ELICA, which is in a class all on it's own. Its realistic 3D engine is great for simulations, etc. For kids, check out either MicroWorlds Pro by LCSI or Terrapin Logo (both fee-based). Links are under Resources at the Logo Foundation site. For a "head" try a "maxwell" from www.medonis.com. It's a lot cheaper than those made for Hollywood. Try a fitting a latex Halloween mask on it and I'm sure any "kid" would have a blast. I do! -----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-admin@lists.squeakfoundation.org]On Behalf Of Scott A Crosby Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 8:12 PM To: Edwin Pilobello Cc: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: Bongo a Java for kids On Mon, 23 Jul 2001, Edwin Pilobello wrote: > I have been teaching LOGO to kids as young as 3rd grade in Oregon Public > Schools. The concept of multiple turtles is something even my High School Lets see, I first learned Logo, I think, when I was in 2nd grade. In 3rd grade I think we were doing simple (fixed number of iterations) loops, but no variables or control structures. That would be in 1985-86, I think in a C64. This was in a relatively rural school, so I know it has been taught that young. Scott

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FFI broken ?
by rob.van.den.berg＠philips.com 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi, I am trying to glue together my Squeak GUI with an existing Image processing application for which I have written a dll for interfacing ( Yes, it's on Windows). To make this work I wanted to use FFI. But just testing the examples (Win32Shell) in the latest Win32 Squeak distribution crashes Squeak with no error whatsoever: The FFI call however (e.g Win32Shell explore: 'c;\') does get executed! What am I doing wrong? regards, rob -_-__----__----___-----____---__-_-_-_____--___-- rob van den berg rob.van.den.berg(a)philips.com +31 40 27 63291 QJ-2317 Philips Medical Systems, Netherlands

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Re: FFI broken ?
by rob.van.den.berg＠philips.com 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi Hannes, Squeak tells me : Squeak 3.0 from 4 Februari 2001, latest update: #3545. (It's the 3.0 version from Squeak.org) regards, rob -_-__----__----___-----____---__-_-_-_____--___-- rob van den berg rob.van.den.berg(a)philips.com +31 40 27 63291 QJ-2317 Philips Medical Systems, Netherlands Hannes Hirzel <hirzel(a)spw.unizh.ch>@lists.squeakfoundation.org on 30/07/2001 11:08:59 Please respond to squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Sent by: squeak-dev-admin(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org cc: (bcc: Rob van den Berg/BST/MS/PHILIPS) Subject: Re: FFI broken ? Classification: Rob, Could you please indicate the exact version specification of the Squeak you are using: In Morphic: - Yellow-click on the desktop to bring up the personal menu (Right mouse button with two button window mouse) - Choose 'about this system...' - Squeak gives you the exact version spec; for example 'Squeak3.1alpha latest update: #4173' I once did tests with the FFI on Windows (just opening EXEs with additional command line parameters) and it worked fine. In the near future I'd be using it again). Hannes Hirzel >I am trying to glue together my Squeak GUI with an existing Image processing >application for which I have written a dll for interfacing ( Yes, it's on Windows). >To make this work I wanted to use FFI. But just testing the examples (Win32Shell) >in the latest Win32 Squeak distribution crashes Squeak with no error whatsoever: >The FFI call however (e.g Win32Shell explore: 'c;\') does get executed! >What am I doing wrong? > >regards, > >rob > >-_-__----__----___-----____---__-_-_-_____--___-- >rob van den berg rob.van.den.berg(a)philips.com >+31 40 27 63291 QJ-2317 >Philips Medical Systems, Netherlands

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interfacing with other languages
by Jos Roberts 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Does anyone know how to interface Squeak with another language (or even if it can be done at all)? For example, I want to write a program where I use Java for the functional workings, but I want to use Squeak for the GUI. Can it be done?

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Re: FFI broken ?
by Hannes Hirzel 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Rob, Could you please indicate the exact version specification of the Squeak you are using: In Morphic: - Yellow-click on the desktop to bring up the personal menu (Right mouse button with two button window mouse) - Choose 'about this system...' - Squeak gives you the exact version spec; for example 'Squeak3.1alpha latest update: #4173' I once did tests with the FFI on Windows (just opening EXEs with additional command line parameters) and it worked fine. In the near future I'd be using it again). Hannes Hirzel >I am trying to glue together my Squeak GUI with an existing Image processing >application for which I have written a dll for interfacing ( Yes, it's on Windows). >To make this work I wanted to use FFI. But just testing the examples (Win32Shell) >in the latest Win32 Squeak distribution crashes Squeak with no error whatsoever: >The FFI call however (e.g Win32Shell explore: 'c;\') does get executed! >What am I doing wrong? > >regards, > >rob > >-_-__----__----___-----____---__-_-_-_____--___-- >rob van den berg rob.van.den.berg(a)philips.com >+31 40 27 63291 QJ-2317 >Philips Medical Systems, Netherlands

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struggling with Celeste
by John Hinsley 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Dear All I fire up Celeste. I've entered my email name, pop3 server, user name and SMTP server. I hook up to my ISP and try to get Celeste to pick up some mail (same kind of error if I try to send it). I get the debugger and Error:Unable To Authenticate Ourselves To The Pop Server PopSocket(Object)>>error: PopSocket>>connectToPOP: (but it looks as though the connection has gone OK): I've got address: a ByteArray(212 1 128 148) response: '+OK Telinco POP3 Server (Version 1.005l-tweaked RPW) ready at <Mon Jul 30 04:39:25 2001> ' So that's fine It's sending the right password/username. Do I need to do anything to the PopSocket? I'm completely bewildered by this. Having said all that, some of my messages are actually getting sent (and picked up by Netscape). When Celeste requests my password, is it looking for a higher level authentification than my (ISP style) username? (In which case I need to comment out that code, prontissimo!) Cheers John -- ****************************************************************************** Marx: "Why do Anarchists only drink herbal tea?" Proudhon: "Because all proper tea is theft." ******************************************************************************

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[GOODIE] BillsClock
by Alexander＠Lazarevic.de 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

from preamble: "Change Set: BillsClock Date: 30 July 2001 Author: Alexander Lazarevic This Morph is mostly like the WatchMorph, but with a nicer clock face. The image for the clock face is from Bill Giels java applet BillsClock2 (see http://www.kcmultimedia.com/~bgiel/BillsClock2/index.html for more information)"!

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RE: Bongo a Java for kids
by Richard A. O'Keefe 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Alan Kay <Alan.Kay(a)squeakland.org> wrote: According to the MIT folks [StarSqueak] is significantly faster than their JAVA version of StarLogo (we are not sure why, since no big attempts were made to optimize StarSqueak). Possibly because Java is not a terribly well compiled language yet. I have *interpreted* Scheme (using Aubrey Jaffer's SCM) running faster than Java 1.2 (*with* Sun's JIT enabled). Different algorithms, no doubt, but the overall task running faster in interpreted Scheme than compiled Java surely says _something_ about Java.

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Re: Squeak instead of Servlets
by Delbert Murphy 30 Jul '01

30 Jul '01

Hi, You can write a Module for Comanche or add to Swiki + Comanche. I believe that this is a good place to start: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/swiki (I'm not at my own computer right now, so I can't be certain this is the right address. The server doesn't seem to be responding right at the moment). Delbert On Sun, 29 July 2001, "Gary McGovern" wrote: > > <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> > <HTML><HEAD> > <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> > <META content="MSHTML 5.50.4134.600" name=GENERATOR> > <STYLE></STYLE> > </HEAD> > <BODY bgColor=#ffffff> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Hello,</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I'm enquiring as to whether anyone has done any > work running Squeak rather than a servlet (or even JSPs) on a servlet > engine with Apache and DB or if not, can anyone give me some relevant info > such as different methods to achieve the same end.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>There's a few things I'd like to do in that vein > and servlets is the only way I know how (not knowing perl or php) but I'd be > more interested in using Squeak if possible. </FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>I should also mention that I'll be using a free > host with apache.</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2></FONT> </DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Thanks!</FONT></DIV> > <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>Gary</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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