Squeak-dev December 2004

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491 discussions

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by Pavel Krivanek 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

This script fully removes "The Worlds of Squeak" from Squeak 3.7 Original image size (basic): 10 053 820 Final image size: 9 133 528 Pavel

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RE: SM has passed 500 packages!
by DClarke＠fadal.com 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Hi Göran, Thanks for the offer! I'll submit my proposal on the wiki page I created after I play with it. A cursory glance suggests these will divide nicely. Cheers, Darius -----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of goran.krampe(a)bluefish.se Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 11:59 PM To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list Subject: RE: SM has passed 500 packages! Hi Darius and all! <DClarke(a)fadal.com> wrote: > I've created a wiki page to discuss/play with categorization: > http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2000 Great initiative! I have actually asked about this on a number of occasions but the interest has been low so far. But perhaps the sheer number of packages now has increased the interest. Tell you what - if you take the time to come up with a proposal I will gladly make the changes (requires admin rights). Also, the last modified should indeed be visible - especially since the model has that info, though I am not sure it is completely correct at the moment. regards, Göran

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[BUG] Broken menu item in browser.
by Alan Grimes 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Highlighting a variable in a class definition then doing middle-click >> more >> "references to it", DOES ABSOLUTLY NOTHING in either 3.7 or 3.8g.

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[FIX] Some SUnit Test fixes to 3.8
by alangrimes＠starpower.net 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

from preamble:

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[BIMONTHLY] 14-28 december
by goran.krampe＠bluefish.se 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Hi all! Here comes the first BIMONTHLY report trying to summarize what is happening in squeak-dev: http://anakin.bluefish.se/gohu/30 (minnow was down so I put it there to begin with) Phew - making this bimonthly report has proved to be more work that I expected. Well, I did expect it to be hard work, but... not quite this hard. The good news is that I have been contacted by a few brave souls to help out so we will see how it turns out. This first report has a poor style and doesn't cover all things being said, which it of course wasn't intended to either - but I have simply not had the time to even read all that has been said during these two last weeks. So things surely have been missed. Also, a good tool for doing this cooperatively with extensive simple hyperlinking etc would be grand. :) Things can only get better from here, right? So if you want to help with making the report, please email me in private. regards, Göran

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Installing KomHttpServer in 3.7/3.8/3.9
by goran.krampe＠bluefish.se 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Hi! Ok, some clarification for the interested: 1. Test in 3.9a-6532: - Something is weird (the key not found yaddayadda when installing KomServices) if you don't use Monticello and thus use MCInstaller. I blame Avi. :) So install Monticello first. BUT... that will bump you into a funny little "halt"! Hehe, well I deleted the halt-call in the debugger, saves, and restarted that method. Obviously some kind of shadowing is going on in Avi's code. - Then install KomServices and DynamicBindings. Sure, it whines but just give the proper answers to get it to move on. - Finally install KomHttpServer and that will bump you into some dependency mechanism currently in Monticello - answer no. Obviously I have messed it up somehow so that it thinks you should use an older KomServices. Smoke test worked. 2. Test in 3.8g-6527: - Opened SqueakMap Package Loader and did a "upgrade all" first and said yes to install Monticello. - Then install KomServices and DynamicBindings. Sure, it whines but just give the proper answers to get it to move on. - Finally install KomHttpServer and that will bump you into some dependency mechanism currently in Monticello - answer no. Smoke test worked. 3. Test in 3.7-5989-basic: - Opened SqueakMap Package Loader and did a "upgrade all" first and said yes to install Monticello. - Then install KomServices and DynamicBindings. No whining this time since I have tested 3.7 before and the packages are properly marked. :) - Finally install KomHttpServer and that will bump you into some dependency mechanism currently in Monticello - answer no. Smoke test worked. Ok, now: - Since Squeak 3.8 and 3.9 aren't released I haven't marked these packages with those categories yet. I don't consider that a bug. - The Transcript halt thing in 3.9 is not my fault. That is simply a bug in Squeak, it shouldn't have a halt in there (something better). - The dependency mumblejumble is perhaps my fault but I hadn't seen it earlier because older Monticello didn't complain. And frankly I am not sure what is going on - in my Komanche development image I have KomHttpServer.6 that requires KomServices.2. At the moment it escapes me why I created that relation - perhaps I was just learning Monticello. Btw, the smoketest is the code showed in the description of KomHttpServer. regards, Göran

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RE: SM has passed 500 packages!
by DClarke＠fadal.com 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

I've created a wiki page to discuss/play with categorization: http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/2000 Cheers, Darius -----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of DClarke(a)fadal.com Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 5:12 PM To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: RE: SM has passed 500 packages! Great milestone!! Can we think some more about how we create the category hierarchy now? I think we need some more granularity esp. for the newbie. Applications = 47 Development tools = 143 Maybe by: * target audience * multimedia * UI * keyboard enhancements * code structure * meta-code structures * code browsers * widgets * math functions * date/time functions * version compatibility specific updates * "trends for the future with great promise" * interfaces to other applications/libraries * interfaces to data structures * other languages * testing * very experimental * best for programmer's workbench * file formats * exemplary coding style * internet consuming (client) applications * packaging routines * hobby/engineering specific * etc. Perhaps a wiki page everyone can sort & test. Perhaps a "package last modified date" to measure how it's aging. Cheers, Darius -----Original Message----- From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org [mailto:squeak-dev-bounces@lists.squeakfoundation.org] On Behalf Of goran.krampe(a)bluefish.se Sent: Tuesday, December 28, 2004 4:15 AM To: squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org Subject: SM has passed 500 packages! Hi people! Well, I just noticed SM is up to 506 packages and 241 accounts. Wow! And the funny silly bug that makes: http://map1.squeakfoundation.org/sm/recentnew ...barf has temporarily disappeared. :) cheers, Göran

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Re:[Newbie] Help! How do I release a project I've uploaded to sm?
by Peace Jerome 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

Trygve Reenskaug wrote: > <snip> >First question in my mind when seeing the >SqueakMap home page was >- Do I have to 'upload' my package? Do I have to upload it to a particular repository? > The answer is no, and I just ignored uploading. Reply: I need to upload my projects to somewhere first. I am working without a home base at the moment. The easiest thing would be to us sm as a repository as well as a listing. > Where do I put the URL for the package? I searched the form up and down with no result. > I even posted my package without giving its URL. The I found a new button: 'edit releases' > So the answer was: I of course post the release later, on the 'edit releases' form. Reply: Yes. I figured that out too. Still the way it is presented is confusing IMHO. <><snip> >Then, finding the release form, I wondered >- Which licence should I select? I don't care and selected SqueakL at random. >- What's the difference between 'downloaded' and 'uploaded' here? > I just put the URL for my MC package. It wasn't downloaded and it wasn't uploaded, but it works. >Yes, it worked!! I started a release 3.7 basic, opened SqeuakMap and presto! There was my package ready to install! >Impressive. I only spent a couple of hours making SqueakMap do what I wanted. In my book, that is pretty quick learning a new system. >I did not hit any errors (other than my own), so you must have done something differently. Did you 'upload' anything? Reply: Yes. I did. And could not get sm to accept the release. So I am specifically trying to find someone. who has uploaded to sm and then successfully edited a release. >All the best, and many thanks to the SqueakMap people >--Trygve Reply: Thanks Trygve for your help. If I can't get an answer to my query I'll try loading stuff to some other archive and supply the url. Still if someone has had experience with using the upload features of sm to release a package please let me know what you did. I also need to say that I am uploading and releasing things using a IE browser and not from squeak. If there is a way to do it from squeak I'm not aware of it yet. I previously wrote: >I keep running into a internal error at least one >digit expected here. > >I have several projects which I have uploaded >successfully onto squeakmap. >I have successfully enter info for the package and >the went to edit the release. I edit the release and >press the button at the bottom to save it and boom the >error and no release recorded. > >I'm more or less blocked until I find away to get >around this. Goran said he would look into the >internal error and get back to me but that was a while >ago. > >Has anyone out there successfully used sm as an upload >site and released a project? If so what did you do? >Did you run into the internal error. Did you find away >around it? > >What will work? > >Thanks for your help, >Jerome Peace > > > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com

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[Newbie] Help! How do I release a project I've uploaded to sm?
by Peace Jerome 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

I keep running into a internal error at least one digit expected here. I have several projects which I have uploaded successfully onto squeakmap. I have successfully enter info for the package and the went to edit the release. I edit the release and press the button at the bottom to save it and boom the error and no release recorded. I'm more or less blocked until I find away to get around this. Goran said he would look into the internal error and get back to me but that was a while ago. Has anyone out there successfully used sm as an upload site and released a project? If so what did you do? Did you run into the internal error. Did you find away around it? What will work? Thanks for your help, Jerome Peace __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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A roadmap for 3.9
by stéphane ducasse 29 Dec '04

29 Dec '04

hi all I have been discussing with marcus/alex and also thinking about that after my remarks on andreas remarks related to changes, interfaces/ cleaning vs changes. So to avoid get frustration from all the parts and to state clearly what is our plan for 3.9 we would like you to read the following and let us know. Depending on the reactions, we (the guys from berne) may decide to produce our own stream, because we must work too ;). But we understand that other people cannot deal with a system changing. But in that case we should draw the consequences. Our part that we will work on for 3.9 is to get the system improved from a developers point of view. We think that having a good foundation is important for everybody. The overall idea is to slowly improve one aspect of Squeak: The idea to have a System to build the next System with. This has lots of consquences, one is that you want the system to be in a shape that e.g., students that are not yet complete Squeak experts can start to do experiments with it on a quite deep level, e.g., change the compiler or add a feature to the Browser. Another aspect is to have a System for research. The Traits project has been hugely successful, but it has shown that Squeak does have real problems if you use it for stuff like that. If Squeak is supposed to be the system of choice for research like this, we need to fix those problems, we need to make sure that the lessons learned from those projects get fed back into the system. (One example is the change-notification that was added to 3.7, it is a direct result of the Traits project) All this does not mean that 3.9 will only be about that stuff: We surely want to see e.g. the work of Diego beeing included, also any changes that other people would need are welcome. For our perspective here what we would like to have: we put in (p) the code that will be in external packages, which likely will be "full". - services - new preferences pane - OB (p?) + browseUnit new version - MC in the base image - rbengine (p) - shout (p) - SqueakMap II (yes we want it) - eCompletion or another package - keybinding - traits - new compiler framework of anthony adapted by marcus to produce not full block. Note that for Etoy the old compiler will still be in the image so from that point of view it should not have an impact. - refactoring of systemDictionary. (see below this point) We are sure that we forgot something but this is what we have on top of my head. Now for systemDictionary here is the situation and here is where we would like to be after 3.9 In the past we created SmalltalkImage out of SystemDictionary in the hope to have SystemDictionary be a nice and simple namespace class. Lot of stuff has been put in coherent places (SystemNavigation, SpaceTally, Changeset....) But this will not work since people get used to add stuff there and Smalltalk is a cool name. So the new proposal is the following one and is partly implemented. Note however that it will require from us a lot of work so if you are against it please say it and we will only do it for us. from a user point of view we want to have: only one class: SmalltalkImage/SystDict for all the image related services (VM pluggins, ....) but the namespace behavior will be delegated to Namespace. All the previous code referencing Smalltalk will work but with deprecation for the namespace interface. From the language programmer point of view: there will be a namespace that can be used for experimentation this class will replace the environment class of dan that is now obsolete We plan to proceed that way: - create a class namespace with a new interface (done) - delegate from systemDictionary to this new class (done but not published) - deprecate all the namespace method of systemDictionary (but we likely want to keep them for some time) - fix all the in image senders of Smalltalk as a namespace to use the new class (using self environment for example). (partly done over the previous years) - merge back SmalltalkImage into SystemDictionary: the idea here is to not have SystemDict as a subclass of Dictionary - have Smalltalk pointing to an instance of this new entity, so that everybody is happy. Stef and Marcus

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