Squeak-dev June 2006

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149 participants
250 discussions

Squeak as IDE
by Jimmie Houchin 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Squeak offers much in the way of creature comforts for developing. I miss them greatly any time I venture out of Squeak. I have never settled or found an editor I like a lot. I'm not a Vim, Emacs, etc fanatic. I'm not alone. Surveying the newsgroups of languages like Ruby, Python, et al, there are many searching for a great IDE. How close is Squeak to being able to an IDE for other languages? At this point its a curiosity for me. I currently don't have the time. But, how much needs to be done to be able to: Edit in browser windows? Have syntax highlighting? I like being able to edit individual methods. Having versioning on each save. Then a simple export to a file. How hard would this be to support in a standard browser or OmniBrowser? I wonder how many converts to Squeak, at least as far as contributing to scratching their own IDE itch, we could gain by competing in the IDE arena. Emacs and Vi(m) are odd to many people. Eclipse is a pig. Just some thoughts. Thanks. Jimmie Houchin

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Annoying reproducible bug in 3.8-6665
by trilobyte＠hoe.nu 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Hi, There is an annoying bug I've been running into on the 3.8-6665 image. It is totally reproducible from a stock image. 1) Open the image, elect not to do updates. 2) Open a workspace. 3) doIt: Smalltalk at: myForm put: nil 4) doIt: myForm _ Form extent: 100@100. 5) Open a Browser. 6) Middle-click in leftmost (class category) pane, search for class Form. 7) Left-click on any category in the method category pane. 8) BOOM! MessageNotUnderstood: UndefinedObject>>beginsWith: Seems to be something to do with _ to := conversion and the SystemDictionary. Maybe I'm doing something wrong that is making the system flake out, but I don't think so...? (testing platform Mac PPC 3.8.6Beta6 VM under OS 10.3.9) Thanks, Tim J.

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[ANN] Logic Expressions v2.1
by Daniel Altman 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Hi all, after a lot of time, a new version of Logic Expressions is now available on SqueakMap. >From the package description: This is a model of first order logic expressions, allowing you to manipulate them as objects instead of just strings. Prerequisites: -Refactoring Browser -SmaCC Runtime Package -SmaCC Development Package Inspect the following lines to get the expression corresponding to "(p => q) = (not p or q)": | p q | p := LVariable named: 'p'. q := LVariable named: 'q'. p => q equiv: (p not | q). Now, the same formula could be created using: LExpression fromString: '{p=>q = not p or q}' More complex formulas can also be created and evaluated, for example try: | exp | exp := LExpression fromString: '{V(x)[x even]}'. exp valueDomains: {'x' -> #(2 4 6 8 10 12 )}. See more examples in the Logic-Tests category. I hope you enjoy it! Dany

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Re: YASoB (was Re: some news)
by SmallSqueak 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Jecel , > > My comment on this is that Smalltalk-80 was indeed wonderful by relative > standards, but it shouldn't become a religion that keeps us from > inventing something better. Though this isn't nearly as sad as people > who keep insisting on creating things that are worse while the public > assumes it is automatically better than something "old" like Smalltalk > (what C. S. Lewis called "chronological snobbery"). > I have a feeling that to many Smalltakers, in general, there have been no advances in software engineering and computer language design since Smalltalk was invented. When was Smalltalk really invented? Was it in 1972 or 1976 or 1980? Did Squeak Central insist on creating things that are worse than Smalltalk-72 and the crowd assumed that it is automatically better than something "old" like Smalltalk-72? For that matter, did the commercial Smalltalk vendors insist likewise? Cheers, PhiHo ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jecel Assumpcao Jr" <jecel(a)merlintec.com> To: "The general-purpose Squeak developers list" <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 2:44 PM Subject: YASoB (was Re: some news) > PhiHo, > > > "Alan Kay" wrote: > > > > "... it really bothers me that so many people on this list > > are satisfied with Smalltalk-80 (Yikes!) > > But that's another soapbox." > > > > > > Dear Seasoned Squeakers, > > > > I have followed this list for a while and I have a feeling > > that Alan Kay is not particularly fond of Smalltalk-80. > > > > I've been wondering why or maybe I got it wrong. > > > > Your thought is very much appreciated. > > > > I really hope if Alan is not too busy we will be > > able to hear it straight from the Dragon's mouth. ;-) > > Rather than speaking for Alan, I will just quote two paragraphs from his > "Early History of Smalltalk" (there is a link to a PDF version in Stef's > Free Books page and there is a html version with some missing pictures > at http://gagne.homedns.org/~tgagne/contrib/EarlyHistoryST.html): > > ------- > I will try to show where most of the influences came from and how they > were transformed in the magnetic field formed by the new personal > computing metaphor. It was the attitudes as well as the great ideas of > the pioneers that helped Smalltalk get invented. Many of the people I > admired most at this time--such as Ivan Sutherland, Marvin Minsky, > Seymour Papert, Gordon Moore, Bob Barton, Dave Evans, Butler Lampson, > Jerome Bruner, and others--seemed to have a splendid sense that their > creations, though wonderful by relative standards, were not near to the > absolute thresholds that had to be crossed. Small minds try to form > religions, the great ones just want better routes up the mountain. Where > Newton said he saw further by standing on the shoulders of giants, > computer scientists all too often stand on each other's toes. Myopia is > still a problem where there are giants' shoulders to stand > on--"outsight" is better than insight--but it can be minimized by using > glasses whose lenses are highly sensitive to esthetics and criticism. > ------- > > and > > ------- > New ideas go through stages of acceptance, both from within and without. > >From within, the sequence moves from "barely seeing" a pattern several > times, then noting it but not perceiving its "cosmic" significance, then > using it operationally in several areas, then comes a "grand rotation" > in which the pattern becomes the center of a new way of thinking, and > finally, it turns into the same kind of inflexible religion that it > originally broke away from. From without, as Schopenhauer noted, the new > idea is first denounced as the work of the insane, in a few years it is > considered obvious and mundane, and finally the original denouncers will > claim to have invented it. > ------- > > My comment on this is that Smalltalk-80 was indeed wonderful by relative > standards, but it shouldn't become a religion that keeps us from > inventing something better. Though this isn't nearly as sad as people > who keep insisting on creating things that are worse while the public > assumes it is automatically better than something "old" like Smalltalk > (what C. S. Lewis called "chronological snobbery"). > > --Jecel >

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Demystifying "most Smalltalk’s don't directly support multiple inheritance"
by Klaus D. Witzel 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

List, haven't you heard that Smalltalk and Squeak do not directly support multiple inheritance, time and again? But that Perl, Python and Ruby do (to some extent)? - http://www.google.com/search?q=python+ruby+multiple+inheritance Well, that is not the case for Smalltalk since the time that VMs are implemented by using the specs of the Blue Book. I have attached a small .st file which demonstrates that the *unchanged* VM *must* support multiple inheritance (for message sends), or else it won't work properly. It's a matter of view on what the VM does for you :-D With the exception of support code for exceptions [pun intended] the attached examples work on VMs which implement the super send from the Blue Book. The first example demonstrates that multiple inheritance works; in this example it is also checked that the requesting method qualifies (that the instances qualify is checked at fileIn time). The second example does a message tally and shows that there is less than 50% overhead when possible walkbacks are guarded at every multiple inheritance message send. The third example employs the existing method cache of the VM (the original Squeak VM) for multiple inheritance message sends and thus minimizes the overhead to less than 5% (and the demo is written in .st code :-) Again, this all exists *unchanged* for decades. It only had to be brought to the surface? ------- I would be very interested to see if my examples run on other platforms and VMs, please post your experience. Thank you. It'd be equally interesting if the approach had been used before. /Klaus

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Smalltalk logo related pictures
by Noury Bouraqadi 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Hi, Vojtech asked me about some Smalltalk ballon picture. This brought to me the idea of having a repository of Smalltalk related pictures. See: http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury/SmalltalkPicturesRepository If you have more pictures, please let me know. Regards, Noury Début du message réexpédié : > De: "Doc. Ing. Vojtech Merunka, Ph.D." <merunka(a)pef.czu.cz> > Date: 30 juin 2006 10:36:58 GMT+02:00 > À: Noury Bouraqadi <bouraqadi(a)ensm-douai.fr> > > I need some picture of the Smalltalk > Baloon. In best case without letters "Smalltalk" and in black&white > form. > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur ARMINES - Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. G.I.P http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org Squeak: a Free Smalltalk http://www.squeak.org ------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUG? RBParser looses some comments
by Damien Pollet 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

I can't find the comment when exploring the result of this: RBParser parseExpression: 'aReceiver aMessage "foo" do: [Transcript show: 42]' onError: [:s :p|^nil]. But for this it's OK: RBParser parseExpression: 'aReceiver aMessage "foo" anotherMessage' onError: [:s :p|^nil]. (I'm porting a pretty printer from VW: package Gutenberg on SqueakSource) -- Damien Pollet type less, do more

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Re: Squeak on Windows Mobile
by Noury Bouraqadi 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

Hi Adam, Le 29 juin 06, à 19:30, adam.kruszewski(a)gmail.com a écrit : > I would like to ask if and when Windows Mobile users could expect some > public version of it or if I could get some alpha version of that vm? > > > Yes, It's available on the UbiquiTalk project web page. http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/UbiquiTalk/uploads/1/Squeak-pda.1.zip Regards, Noury ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur ARMINES - Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. G.I.P http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org Squeak: a Free Smalltalk http://www.squeak.org ------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: BUG FFI/unix vm ? Hackers help requested !
by ncellier＠ifrance.com 30 Jun '06

30 Jun '06

bouchet vincent: > Hi all, > > I think to a "synchronisation" problem : I remember similar problemwith c++ (in an other life) : The value is read before she was write.(with a Transcript, or a debug screen, the execution speed is slower.) > Interesting, now i have at least 2 solutions, Transcript in loops or steal a 486DX at the museum. I thought there were a single thread of execution and have not the necessary background to understand what you say, but i will transmit the suggestion to Ian. Thank you Nicolas ________________________________________________________________________ iFRANCE, exprimez-vous ! http://web.ifrance.com

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Re: BUG FFI/unix vm ? Hackers help requested !
by ncellier＠ifrance.com 29 Jun '06

29 Jun '06

Dave, you are perfectly right, and in my original TestCase i used such a carefully crafted epsilon based on matrix dimensions and Float precision. And the test (norm < epsilon) did also fail... What you see here is the result of my peregrinations in isolating and tracking the bug. And since i force the value to 0.0 which has an exact representation in IEEE floating point, there is no problem using equal, this is one of the rare cases where this construct is licit. Beside, if i retry the expression while in the debugger, it does never fail. If you load my testcase, you can replace the test = 0.0 with < 1.0e-5, ~= 1 or whatever, i guess it will still fail on the seventh call (sorry, no unix image under my hands to assert what i say). Nicolas Dave Hylands: > Hi Nicolas, > > > And on the seventh call, i always get a stange result (result is 0.0 but will > > answer false to = 0.0). > > I don't know a whole lot about FFI, but I know that generally accepted > practice (at least in C which is the language I'm most familiar with) > is that you NEVER test for equality when using floating point numbers. > > You always use some small epsilon and test that the number you've got > is within epsilon of the comparison number. > > This is because due to roundoff and other such effects, you can wind > up with really tiny numbers, like 1 x 10^-53 which is essentially > zero, but is not equal to zero. > > This might not even be relevant to your discussion, but seeing the > equality test on 0.0 raised a red flag for me. > > -- > Dave Hylands > Vancouver, BC, Canada > http://www.DaveHylands.com/ > ________________________________________________________________________ iFRANCE, exprimez-vous ! http://web.ifrance.com

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