Squeak-dev August 2007

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132 participants
163 discussions

Re: Morphic 3.0: The future of the Gui
by bradallenfuller＠yahoo.com 30 Aug '07

30 Aug '07

Hi Juan, 1.3 Direct Manipulation Have you seen this video about image resizing http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qadw0BRKeMk 1.4 Framework Structure What's the thinking behind this? "Class Morph should not include general concepts of color, border, etc. Each morph class decides what are the relevant properties for its instances. " Another thought: I always wanted to be able to have _any_ object that communicates to the user to be a morph. This would be any graphic object, but also any video object, audio object, anything that deals with the senses of the user. What do you think about this idea? ----- Original Message ---- From: Juan Vuletich <juan(a)jvuletich.org> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2007 8:14:03 PM Subject: Morphic 3.0: The future of the Gui Hi Folks, I started to write a "paper to be" about my Morphic 3.0 project. The objective is to convince you that Morphic 3.0 is the coolest thing around :). The first draft is available at www.jvuletich.org. I hope you enjoy it. Any comment is welcome. Cheers, Juan Vuletich www.jvuletich.org

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ESUG 2007 videos?
by Brad Fuller 30 Aug '07

30 Aug '07

Does anyone know if there will be videos of the sessions at ESUG?

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Re: pipe
by Marcel Weiher 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

On Aug 26, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Alan Lovejoy wrote: > Andrew Tween wrote: >> if we don't want to use up another character, then we could use two >> semi-colons. >> a x:1 ;; y: 2 > > Actually, whatever token is used, it should NOT be one that would be > a legal message selector. It's new syntax, and messages and syntax > should be distinct. Well, only if you view things that are new as additions to what is there. I prefer to see new things as generalizations or refactorings of what is there. In Arches, I view message sends as a special-case of connectors. So things like := or => or possibly ;; can also just be connectors, but ones that are not message sends. Admittedly, I haven't yet thought wether I can make statement separators into connectors. Superficially, it doesn't look like they wouldn't be: they connect statements (at the same time separating them ;-)... Marcel

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ESUG Awards 2007
by Noury Bouraqadi 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

Dear Smalltalkers, I'm just back to my hotel after this great ESUG conference social event (Thanks again to local organizers and especially to Prof. Michele Lanza). We had dinner in a restaurant at the top of the mountain "Monte Generoso" near Lugano. Before the dessert, Joseph Pelrine annouced the results of this year's ESUG awards. The competition was hard. Checkout the url below http://www.esug.org/conferences/ 15thinternationalsmalltalkjointconference2007/ innovationtechnologyawards/winnersandnominations Regards, Noury ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur Responsable de l'enseignement de l'informatique ARMINES - Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. I.A. http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org ------------------------------------------------------------------

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directory recursive delete problem on Windows
by Michael Rueger 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

Hi all, Grit just ran into an -interesting to say the least- problem with recursive deletion of directories on Windows. We are not able to provide a stripped down test case yet, but here some info: - we extract a zip archive to provide an initial setup for Plopp data - then the user can play around in demo mode (problem doesn't occur in a full version as the deletion doesn't take place) - upon quitting demo mode all data is erased via a recursive directory delete We have simple test up without running the UI to reproduce the problem. The delete fails about 1 in 10 with a primitive failed in deleteDirectory. There are no open files or anything obvious. Now the interesting part... If we add a delay of 1 sec after catching the error and then simply retry the exception to delete the directory again, it works. [Painter3DStorage storageDirectory recursiveDelete] on: Error do: [: exception | (Delay forMilliseconds: 1000) wait. exeption retry] Any ideas? Michael

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UI (was RE: A couple of simple ergonomic adjustments)
by Gary Chambers 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

Just an update... Although business work is busy I am managing to get closer to a release :-) I'll be asking some questions next week as to how people want to see things packaged up and hosted. In the mean time, some extra screenshots with code examples... http://flickr.com/photos/65338133@N00/1213406097/ http://flickr.com/photos/65338133@N00/1214268406/ http://flickr.com/photos/65338133@N00/1213402171/ http://flickr.com/photos/65338133@N00/1213400147/ Gary at pinesoft.co.uk.

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Smalltalk positions
by Noury Bouraqadi 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

Hi, I added two offers to my page for "Smalltalk Job and Internship Offers" http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury/18 Since the begining of the year I got more than 3400 visits! Regards, Noury ------------------------------------------------------------------ Dr. Noury Bouraqadi - Enseignant/Chercheur Responsable de l'enseignement de l'informatique ARMINES - Ecole des Mines de Douai - Dept. I.A. http://csl.ensm-douai.fr/noury European Smalltalk Users Group Board http://www.esug.org ------------------------------------------------------------------

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Linux desktop manager Close Window is dangerous.
by Brad Fuller 29 Aug '07

29 Aug '07

Before I dig into this, I bet someone has already investigated this and decided it can't be done. When you close the Squeak with the desktop manager's "Close Window" (the "X"), squeak closes without a confirmation dialog. Windows has an "Are you sure?" and I expect the Mac version does too. Why not Linux? (I'm running XFCE, but KDE and Gnome do the same thing.) brad

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Re: pipe and the social context
by Fabio Filasieno 28 Aug '07

28 Aug '07

On Aug 28, 2007, at 1:38 PM, Alan Lovejoy wrote: > Denis Kudriashov wrote: >> >> 2007/8/27, Alan Lovejoy <squeak-dev.sourcery(a)forum-mail.net >> <mailto:squeak-dev.sourcery@forum-mail.net>>: >> >> There haven't been all that many syntax changes to Smalltalk >> since its >> public release as ST80. Off the top of my head, I can list the >> following: >> >> >> These changes does not have an influence on language core, >> language semantics. Its just was some convenient constructions for >> building special objects. But when we put in Smalltalk new >> operator we change it semantics. Why we must do it? >> Bert implemented it in clean Smalltalk without any language >> changes. Why it is not enough? >> > There are two issues: > > 1) Are the proposed "pipes" a good idea at all? Is it good > programming style--or an abusive practice? > I remember a sentence of Alan Kay related to education stating that education is about learning powerful ideas and it was said in the context of describing what a metacircular interpreter is. Understanding this powerful ideas is difficult and requires experience. In my opinion, the homoiconic system written is itself is the powerful idea in Smalltalk. But before trying what it means to work in an homoiconic system, my judgement was "who cares". But then my opinion changed, as soon as I tried squeak. Same for the pipe. The pipe is one of those powerful ideas. And you will need experience in using it. Look at what the pipe did for Unix. The pipe IS the powerful idea in UNIX around which a whole culture of sharing was built. I'm not talking only of quality software artifacts, but an entire culture of people sharing small pieces of art. Showing how a piece of code written for specific context can be used in another one. This is the job of the artist, to show that there is always a new context. - one guy would write `ls` - another guy would write `grep` - another guy would write `tar` - another guy would write `gzip` ... etc ... And everyone has a scriptable archiving system for free, absolutely for free. Things like: select:thenCollect: It very very ugly bloat. It should removed instantly. To a unix user and to functional programmer this is something to be ashamed of. This is REALLY bad as it also appears in general purpose collection libraries !!! How much other bloat is in Smalltalk ? I wonder if the absence of the pipe is the cause of all this bloat in OOP ? (paul graham seems to argue that the next 100 year language is not OOP - why ? ... bloat ) The pipe is a lesson of the 70' . It has produced in 30/40 years the Unix programming environment that not all but many people love. It has produced a culture of sharing as: one guy writes methodA in an object, another guy writes methodB in another object, and everybody have for free their combination. If some one prefer some hard numbers in arguments then: you can calculate the number of combinations of methods that have compatible return value/receiver and consider chains of size from 2 to n ... As soon as you add the pipe you get that amount of functionality for FREE ! for FREE ! no one needs to write them ! it's already there by magic. Just PIPE them ! If we do an economic analysis of adding the new pipe `law`, the result is that the more people write code the more EXTRA functionality everybody would get for FREE, as the number combinations of return value/receiver of methods should grow when code is written. This in theory should push developers to write more code, because the net utility is greater than the work spent writing shared code. This in theory should grow the Smalltalk user base. This is a naive proof that PIPE = an exponentially more powerful system. Not just a better syntax. If the pipe is accepted then ... The next step would be to find (in general purpose libraries) and dump all the methods the can be classified as bloat. And the first to go is stuff like select:thenCollect: It hard to believe that in 2007 there are questions if the pipe is good or not; after 40 years of Unix culture made history all around that concept. Object's are so easy to write that they can become complex very easily. The future Smalltalk need a way to question the developer. "Are you sure you need that extra method ? or it's just bloat ?" This will make the developer THINK. Not just abuse of his freedom to add methods at will. Encapsulation and the virtual address space of the class gives power, and with power comes responsibility. Let's make OOP programmers more responsible. Today, to my eyes, many Object Oriented developers are not responsible. They add methods without really needing them: they do that to satisfy a false sense of beauty in writing a materialization of what the software object SHOULD be instead of writing methods that they really need, since there is no other way to get that functionality out of previous code. I've tried to argue why is a mistake to not have the pipe with: - example's - reference to history - mini economic analysis and have exposed why Smalltalk 2008 will have the pipe. Fabio Filasieno PS. In my humble opinion of course.

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RE: pipe and system building
by Andrew Tween 28 Aug '07

28 Aug '07

.> "Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but > when there is nothing left to take away." (Antoine de Saint-Exupery) Is he were a Smalltalker, he would have simplified that... thingsToTakeAway ifEmpty:[Perfection achieved] :) _________________________________________________________________ 100’s of Music vouchers to be won with MSN Music https://www.musicmashup.co.uk/index.html

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