Squeak-dev January 2008

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147 participants
192 discussions

lessphic? may be a future for morphic
by stephane ducasse 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

http:/piumarta.com/software/cola/canvas.pdf BTW one of these days it would be good to - identify the core of morphic (should not that be difficult) - rethink these parts Because we need a small better done UI framework or simply implement lessphic in Squeak

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Promoting Squeak/Smalltalk
by David Zmick 01 Feb '08

01 Feb '08

I have been wondering how to make smalltalk a more "popular" language, because i think it is excellent, and i think it would be good to try to get other people to use it, because, i don't notice to many younger programmers, like myself, using smalltalk, though, i may be wrong. One of the first thing i would think of to promote smalltalk would be writing programs in smalltalk instead of just making smalltalk better, i am not trying to discourage improvement on smalltalk, but if all you are developing is a language for people to continue to develop a language in, it seems like a waste of time. The only program I know about, as in big, large scale programs, written in smalltalk is PetroVR, i may be wrong there to, but i see smalltalk as an excellent development environment and language, but, nothing big is written in it, and it will never grow if the community is focused entirely on making smalltalk better. I might be completely wrong, but that is what i have seen, but, i have only really payed attention for a couple of months, and i think it would be good to see some growth in smalltalk's popularity. :)

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Re: OBSystemBrowser vs. Browser
by Colin Putney 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

On 29-Jan-08, at 1:41 PM, Lukas Renggli wrote: > The chasing browsers are useful, but I noticed that most people don't > understand how they work. Another thing is that they get extremely > slow as soon as you are in the second or third column. I know that > this is the same with my inspectors for example. I guess this could be > fixed with some smart caches? That's odd. As far as I can tell, adding a pane to a chasing browser takes the same amount of time as opening a new browser. Ben had the same complaint, but when we did side-by-side tests, he agreed that, objectively, the wait was the same, but he found it more annoying in a chasing browser. > I never noticed a big reduction of windows with OB. The chasing > browser is a browser that I keep open only for relatively short time. True. But I find that when I'm finished looking at senders, I only have to close one window, rather than 7. > Also because its live views are slowing down the system. The problem > is that I usually end up with tons of the System Browsers. The Search > Browser is useless to me, because it doesn't remember the state of the > view and it only works together with the System Browser. What do you mean by the "the state of the view?" I find don't use the SearchBrowser much either, but in the few cases where I do use it, it's quite useful. I think it has a lot of potential, but still needs some work. > I started a quick prototype of a tabbed browser [1]. Ok, I'll take a look. Colin

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SqueakMap down
by Malte Zacharias 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Hello folks, I hope this posting does not count as unsolicited, but I have had problems to connect to either mirror of SqueakMap during the last few days. It worked ca. 3 days ago but ceased to. I tried from two different network connections (Home & University) Is there a problem? (If this is not the right place for that question, please advise) TIA, Malte Zacharias

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Open Position for Small Talk Developer
by Mayur Kapani 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

We are a financial institution based in Atlanta. We use Smalltalk for some of our mission critical applications. We are looking for small talk developers who are interested in working with us. Please send me a email kapanim(a)yahoo.com with your resume if you are interested in the same. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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Counting lines of code
by squeak-dev.5.pris＠spamgourmet.com 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Hi, what is the easiest way of counting LOC of my project? Thanks Roland

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Problems in Squeak 3.9
by Jerome Peace 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Problems in Squeak 3.9 Hi Roland, Welcome to squeak. *** >squeak-dev.5.pris at spamgourmet.com squeak-dev.5.pris at spamgourmet.com >Wed Jan 30 05:27:49 UTC 2008 > >Squeak 3.9 >latest update #7068 >I'm running this on Ubuntu Linux. > >1) First a problem with the Squeak GUI. >This happens if you pressed caps-lock without noticing. To replicate >the problem, open a browser and make a change in the workspace. Now >press Caps-lock. Then try to close the browser window and you can't! >When this happened to me I wasn't aware of the caps-lock and ended up >shutting down Squeak the hard way. Try it out to see what I mean. > This annoyance is probably worthy of a bug report.* >2) A bug with SketchMorph >I was following the tutorial, which uses SketchMorph: >http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/078.htm > >Unfortunately I wasn't aware that this class is not working >properly(more on that at 3). I finally switched to ImageMorph and got >the problem fixed. >When I read the documentation of ImageMorph I found the following: > >Relationship to SketchMorph: ImageMorph should be favored over >SketchMorph, a parallel, legacy class -- see the Swiki FAQ for details >( http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1372 ). > >It would be sensible to put a corresponding notice in the SketchMorph, >otherwise you won't have a clue about this, and btw update the >tutorial to use ImageMorph also. Btw this took me over 10 hours to >debug, because I first thought this was some problem with Squeak >events. Yes the transparent pixel feature is frustrating. > >3) Bug with SketchMorph. > >The problem is in this message: > >containsPoint: aPoint > ^ (self bounds containsPoint: aPoint) and: > [(self rotatedForm isTransparentAt: aPoint - bounds origin) not] > >Even if the point is in SketchMorph the following expression returns >true: (self rotatedForm isTransparentAt: aPoint - bounds origin) >and so the MouseClick isn't detected. Another good bug report, I think. Hmm. If the point you are clicking over is not transparent and therefore the mouse should see it. Is the rotated form different than the original form? or the same? With rotation transformers in the middle of things there is lots of room for confusion. > >This message is sent from the MorphicEventDispatcher to check the mouse click: >aMorph containsPoint: anEvent cursorPoint event: anEvent > >4) Bug with Morph class. The message wantsHaloFromClick always answers >true. It should be possible to turn this off, I don't want halos from >submorphs. I think this is a preference issue. Preferences disable: #wantsHaloFromClick (or whatever the name of the preference really is) should do the trick. > >5) Question: In the GUI editor how do I change instance messages into >class messages? The only way I know is copying by hand then deleting >the old one. Fastest way I know is the cut and paste. Though if you are thinking to move them you probably need to think again. most class mesages of this nature get implemented: MyClass class>>#makeMyDay ^self new makeMyDay where the second makeMyDay is implemented on the instance side. classes are generally for creating instances. > >6) What would be the best way to accomplish the following: I have a >morph and in it I want to have a canvas where I can draw, fill >rectangles and also write text in various positions. How do I best >embed a Canvas into a Morph? In 3.9 I implemented a snapshot feature (connected to the halos as Shift click on the blue viewer halo.) So I would assemble a morph with the pieces I want embedding them into the morph and moving them around with the brown halo and then take a snapshot to get an imagemorph like thumbnail. This is not exactly what you asked to do but it is the easy way to get close to the same results. > >Roland *** * FAQ: Is this a known issue ? Where is the place to report bugs (or check if some have already been raised) ? The best place for this info would be to start a Mantis report. (You can get a mantis acct freely and easily). A good place to start is: http://bugs.squeak.org/my_view_page.php Mantis provides a patient persistent way to focus on an issue. I use it to accumulate data on a problem until a solution can be found. It provides a place to alert the community to a problem; -accumulate facts and clues from the analysis; -publish preposed solutions and get feedback; -get solutions harvested and included into the main stream. This FAQ is available at the Squeak wiki site. http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/Mantis%20FAQ%20and%20Tips aka: http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/5912 Mantis FAQ and Tips ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

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Re: lessphic? may be a future for morphic
by Boris Popov 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Cairo (+Quartz), no? Cheers! -Boris (via BlackBerry) ----- Original Message ----- From: squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org <squeak-dev-bounces(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> To: The general-purpose Squeak developers list <squeak-dev(a)lists.squeakfoundation.org> Sent: Thu Jan 31 05:40:16 2008 Subject: Re: lessphic? may be a future for morphic I'd like to hear, how this highly abstract structures and coordinate systems can be designed in such manner, that it will be efficient for rendering with high speed using pixel blitting operations and/or hardware accelerated libraries (such as OpenGL). -- Best regards, Igor Stasenko AKA sig.

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Problems in Squeak 3.9
by squeak-dev.5.pris＠spamgourmet.com 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Squeak 3.9 latest update #7068 I'm running this on Ubuntu Linux. 1) First a problem with the Squeak GUI. This happens if you pressed caps-lock without noticing. To replicate the problem, open a browser and make a change in the workspace. Now press Caps-lock. Then try to close the browser window and you can't! When this happened to me I wasn't aware of the caps-lock and ended up shutting down Squeak the hard way. Try it out to see what I mean. 2) A bug with SketchMorph I was following the tutorial, which uses SketchMorph: http://squeak.preeminent.org/tut2007/html/078.htm Unfortunately I wasn't aware that this class is not working properly(more on that at 3). I finally switched to ImageMorph and got the problem fixed. When I read the documentation of ImageMorph I found the following: Relationship to SketchMorph: ImageMorph should be favored over SketchMorph, a parallel, legacy class -- see the Swiki FAQ for details ( http://minnow.cc.gatech.edu/squeak/1372 ). It would be sensible to put a corresponding notice in the SketchMorph, otherwise you won't have a clue about this, and btw update the tutorial to use ImageMorph also. Btw this took me over 10 hours to debug, because I first thought this was some problem with Squeak events. 3) Bug with SketchMorph. The problem is in this message: containsPoint: aPoint ^ (self bounds containsPoint: aPoint) and: [(self rotatedForm isTransparentAt: aPoint - bounds origin) not] Even if the point is in SketchMorph the following expression returns true: (self rotatedForm isTransparentAt: aPoint - bounds origin) and so the MouseClick isn't detected. This message is send from the MorphicEventDispatcher to check the mouse click: aMorph containsPoint: anEvent cursorPoint event: anEvent 4) Bug with Morph class. The message wantsHaloFromClick always answers true. It should be possible to turn this off, I don't want halos from submorphs. 5) Question: In the GUI editor wow do I change instance messages into class messages? The only way I know is copying by hand then deleting the old one. 6) What would be the best way to accomplish the following: I have a morph and in it I want to have a canvas where I can draw, fill rectangles and also write text in various positions. How do I best embed a Canvas into a Morph? Roland

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Real profiling: Why is my UI so slow?
by Jerome Peace 31 Jan '08

31 Jan '08

Real profiling: Why is my UI so slow? *** >Matthew Fulmer tapplek at gmail.com >Mon Jan 28 05:04:39 UTC 2008 > >On Sat, Jan 26, 2008 at 10:07:03PM -0800, Jerome Peace wrote: >> This is mostly external observations. At the time I >> reported this I hadn't learned to use the tally tools >> usefully. (I still haven't. They give too much >> information. I want something that will point me >> quickly to the culprit.) >I talked to Bryce about this on #squeak, and he gave several >suggestions: > >- In MessageTally reports, look for big drops in time usage from > a parent to child method. That usually points toward the > culprit That sounds logical. >- Insert logging statements in code. In Keith's Logging > framework (http://wiki.squeak.org/squeak/3706), I added a > method just to make logging profiles easy. It helps to see > when a method is getting called way too often. > I let you follow this one. I want to find answers to yes no questions quickly. Then play 20 questions till the bug is found. Then the joy of trying to find the right solution. (If there is one.) >I still don't see how to use the debugger effectively to profile >UI's, since events will be posted from the debugger thread, but >screen updates happen in the UI thread, which is impossible to >get a useful debugger on (as far as I can tell) I've been implementing the probe I mentioned my previous post. It looks fruitful. Invalidating some spots seem to cause significantly more delay than others. Next step is to display the data. If it works the way I think it should the slow spots will "cast" shadows. And the culprits will stand out. preliminary samples at: http://bugs.squeak.org/view.php?id=6876 0006876: Why is my UI slow? Yours in curiosity and service, --Jerome Peace One other clue I found while looking at the code is that all scroll bars are stepped. The slower browsers seem to have the most scroll bars. So I am wondering if prefering the hidden till you need them scroll bars speeds things up? Yours in curiosity and service, - Jerome Peace ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ

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